We have the space for a all dirt euro rallycross style course. We talked about it and decided best would be to have a real low budget Volvo 240 class. Lots of people thought it sounded cool, no one got a Volvo. The thing was, all dirt out there you literally can't see anything if you're within about 500 feet of someone due to the amount of dust.

---

Grant Hughes

alkun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The truth is that rally doesn't work well on
> Tee-Vee, unless you have helicopters chasing cars
> and two dozen camera people.
>
> The idea that TV coverage is what is going to
> "save rally" is just crap.

If Mark can't watch it, it has to be boring. Three years as his roommate and he literally watches just about every series known to man. His Racing Videos folder is motorsport pornography.

That idea's floated around alot. It adds a ton of expense and not enough return. I think we did pretty decent doing video coverage this year with two crews or 2-3 people each, and at any given time three to five useable cameras, only one of which is what you'd consider a nice camera. Of course, we're passionate about the sport so willing to do much more physical damage to ourselves to get it done.

---

Grant Hughes

Its seems that the folkrace tracks are often in the old gravel pit... In the US those are all filled up with cracker-box housing developments now.

fiasco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's the link to Cap'n Slow:
>
>
>
> Andrew Steere, 1973
> Lyndeborough, NH
> KB1PJY

That was great, Andrew. Thanks!

Imagine.......

Naaaah, never happen here.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

alkun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll tell you what would be cool, I think its
> called "Volks rally".

Probably every small oval runs a 'claimer' class race. Talk to them about including and infield section (or section outside of the oval) like they do at Ojibwe.

> The idea that TV coverage is what is going to
> "save rally" is just crap.

I'm not so sure of that. Certainly in Canada there is a strong belief that TV has a direct connection to bringing new people into the sport. I'm not wholly convinced of that, even though it was TV broadcasts of the Canadian Championship that got me interested. Participation in the sport is dwindling, but has always been cyclical and is TV mitigating the decline in Canada?

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

alkun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its seems that the folkrace tracks are often in
> the old gravel pit... In the US those are all
> filled up with cracker-box housing developments
> now.

Well all of Finland is, where its not water, its sand and gravel just a few inches below the soil and same in Sweden anywhere North of Skåne.

makes it a lot easier since there are seriously millions of sand or gravel pits.

More than half of Swedish motocross tracks in the southern third are on sand, and maybe 90% of the tracks North of Stockholm (which is at the top of the lower third of the country) Nearly all Finnish tracks are sand.
(Good farming soil is rare and too valuable to not use as farming.)

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

tedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nothing against Euro-style rally-X, but this all
> reminds me of SCCA'a "Circuit Rally".

Oh yeah, I had forgotten the name of that. I looked it up at archive.org. This is (pieces) from the SCCA's old document:

December 11ish, 2004

2005 CircuitRally 2 National Events
2006 CircuitRally 10 National Events
2007 CircuitRally 30 National Events


CircuitRally is new to SCCA, combining road racing and performance rally. CircuitRally events will be held at existing motorsports facilities and feature wheel-to-wheel heat-based sprint races on mostly non-paved surfaces. Presently, there are several organizations holding similar events with motorcycles, ATVs and trucks. These organizations have thrived since adopting a controlled environment model as opposed to that of a wilderness adventure. CircuitRally fills a need for events featuring automobiles.

With its wheel-to-wheel competition nature, drivers and cars will carry full safety equipment, including roll cages and ignition cutoff switches.
All three programs are created with multiple event levels in mind, from local (Regional) to more broad Divisional and National events. SCCA initially views CircuitRally as a potentially highly-marketable property, and a National CircuitRally series will likely become the most visible sub-program, with excellent spectator, television and promotional opportunities.

BENEFITS
While the new closed course rally program varies from what casual rally fans know from the former ProRally Championship and the World Rally Championship, the benefits are overwhelming for an organizer, sanctioning body, participant and spectator.

Organizational
From an organizational standpoint, all Closed Course Rally events (including RallyCross, RallySprints and CircuitRally) will be easier for SCCA Regions to organize, staff and fund than stage events due to their environment—not utilizing public roads and working primarily in a venue that is spread out by acres and not miles.

Insurance availability and cost, which proved to be the demise of the SCCA Stage Rally program, would be similar to that of the Solo and Club Racing departments due to the event and competition structure. The controlled environment aspect will provide more insurance opportunities at a reduced cost to stage rally.

In addition to the expanded opportunities for additional components to the “event,” the actual locale improves as well, with the opportunity to hold events closer to major metropolitan areas, as opposed to remote locations. Existing motorsports locations, including private road courses, rally tracks and circle tracks are likely candidates to hold these events. Several already have courses in place, while many have the ability to convert into the necessary configuration.

With the set location of Closed Course Rally programs, more effective television production and enhanced broadcasts are possible due to the common course and the ability to fix camera locations. Additionally, equipment and vehicles necessary to produce live and live-to-tape television may now access the venue. Limited access roads to stages often eliminated this option.

With the organization of events comes the task of staffing knowledgeable workers. Closed Course Rally events will draw expertise not only from the current rally community, but also those in Club Racing and Solo. No one knows more about motorsports operations and management in North America than SCCA’s own membership. The current membership throughout the 110 Regions will be instrumental in the launching and sustaining of a successful Closed Course Rally Program.

Participants
From a cost standpoint, running Closed Course Rally events means a savings for participants. With more accessible locations, overall travel costs should reduce, as will entry fees with the venue costs expected to be substantially less than with stage rally.

Wear and tear on rally vehicles is expected to be less than in a stage rally format, due to the layout of the courses and length of the events. While the CircuitRally format does offer a risk of contact with other competitors, the risk of damage coming from natural objects, such as trees, dirt embankments and large rocks, is far reduced or eliminated.

With the ability to run in front of a captive, grandstand-style audience where spectators see the cars constantly or over and over again, marketing and sponsorship possibilities expand. That, along with the ability to create a more easily packaged television format, gives participants more to “sell” to sponsors, thus increasing operating budgets.

Spectators
With the closed circuit layout, comes the opportunity to attract not only spectators to view the entire event from a limited number of locations, but also the opportunity to create a festival-like experience. Utilizing one venue provides the option of adding additional elements to the competition, including vendor areas, lifestyle events and activities that go hand-in-hand with rally enthusiasts.

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Anyone been to NJMP (New Jersey Motorsport Park)? Do they have a suitable rally-cross track?

Or, I wonder if RA let them know they need to build one. Is Wasserman Media Group just running wild with the PR-BS. Sorta like SCCA did, by announcing a series that never really happened ;-)

Like Pee-Wee Herman said after getting busted for pleasuring himself in public, any publicity is good publicity.

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

WMG is no longer directly involved with RA. They do still represent some of the top names though.

---

Grant Hughes

Thanks Grant.

Who pens RA announcements now?

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

Not really sure, but I assume Ananda Siverts is doing it.

---

Grant Hughes

Sounds good to me.

Not sure I believe it is worth having 450HP in 2wd, esp in a FWD Honda but I get the point. If RA gets this going and has a few events we might be able to talk a local venue or two into hosting non RA events out here in the northwest, I know Merritt, BC was open to having an event near town like this in the past too.

I know from my talks to the insurance people that having a venue in a fenced, closed area is a lot cheaper as they can get their heads around the risk, hence all the dirt tracks and $500 claimer classes that run for so much less money then even rally sprints.

Around here the gravel pits are not all filled up with houses yet.

A cross between the RA idea and the Folks race idea could be a lot of fun for those of us not willing to spend a lot of money for our jollies.

---

In the long run reality always wins.

They don't have one yet. But they were talking about adding a moto cross course. If they add a rally cross course it will likely be at the Lighting track which has a fair amount elevation change.

Brian

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fiasco Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Here's the link to Cap'n Slow:
> >
> >
> >
> > Andrew Steere, 1973
> > Lyndeborough, NH
> > KB1PJY
>
> That was great, Andrew. Thanks!
>
> Imagine.......
>
> Naaaah, never happen here.
>

which part? getting spanked by a 14 year old girl?
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.jvab.f4.ca

tedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone been to NJMP (New Jersey Motorsport Park)?
> Do they have a suitable rally-cross track?
>
> Or, I wonder if RA let them know they need to
> build one. Is Wasserman Media Group just running
> wild with the PR-BS. Sorta like SCCA did, by
> announcing a series that never really happened
> ;-)
>
> Like Pee-Wee Herman said after getting busted for
> pleasuring himself in public, any publicity is
> good publicity.
>

>
> Ted Mendham
> www.rensport.net

I believe they ran a couple of events prior to the opening of the track but not sure. They definitely were listed/announced however.

---

rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!