>European Rallycross is a non-contact sport and many rally guys come into it in >Europe to save a lot of money. Sure on MotorsportMad you see the well funded >Scandinavians destroying $500k cars but you don't see this in the national >championships and the emphasis will be on Rally America to strictly police >driving standards. This isn't CORRS or NASCAR.

A friend of mine told me that about BMW-CCA club racing, too. I laughed in his face. BWAAAHHHHAAAAHHHAAAAA! He insisted that it was "no contact" Then, I worked the pits at his first race. He drove into the back of another car who "braked way too early" for turn 3. We bummed a radiator from another crew and cobbed the rest back together and my friend got to race the next day after being placed on probation by the stewards. I started refering to my friend as the Paul Tracy of BMW-CCA club racing. A couple of years later, a BMW-CCA club racer died contacting the turn one wall. I guess the punishment for contact was increased on the off-season. You can have the best of intentions and write all the horse-shit rules you want, but sooner or later reality is gonna show you that it feels disinclined to always follow your rules.

Rally is supposed to be non-contact too, and I try to keep it that way, I'm as cheap as they come, but know nothing of car control and I managed to ding three other rally cars, at an event a while back. Sorry Guys!

X-Games America, I mean Rally America is going to start strictly policing driving standards? When? Thanks for the belly laugh. ;-)

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

rallyxmark Wrote:

>
> - rallycross is more likely to attract people from
> SCCA rallycross due to its far lower entry cost
> than stage rally and some circuit racing folk

No way. Most of the SCCA people are rxing their daily drivers and most of the rest are still driving the car to and from the events because they can't tow it or don't want to spend the extra money to tow the car out. They are not going to turn these cars into wheel to wheel racers.

As far as those that might have the time and money to build a car I would bet they would rather try stage rallying then risk balling their car up because someone lightly tapped them in the ass and sent them barrel rolling into a wall. After all it still costs the same in safety equipment to build for stage rally where you get to run for tens of miles at a whack competing and not just a couple of minutes.

Super cheap folk racing type of thing might attract SCCA people but that sounds like it will be the last thing to be implemented if it ever sees the light of day. There isn't even a whiff of such a thing in all the RA speak.

---

Quote
Morison
[jvl] Ohh noooohs! There's an h'off tawpik thread in the gent-urinal dick-cushion four-hum. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!![/jvl]

There's a few people I know that love rallycross because of the reduced danger compared to stage rally. They love loose surface and closed venue would totally get them stoked. A few that even rallied before, got married and/or had kids and/or got older and the risk to reward was no longer there for them.

---

Grant Hughes

Yawn.... Yawn again....

Love this topic. I needed a good nap.


Rich Smith

"The best thing about getting old is remembering Rallying."

rallyxmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> - it is non- intentional contact if the organizers do their
> job.
>

Fixed that for you.


> - I really hope RA introduce a 'stock' class that
> let's people build cars for around $3k at the max.
> This would allow people to get into proper
> motorsport and build a base of rallycross drivers.
>

That's not really a concept that is part of RA's business model, as far as I've seen.


> I am happy to be blasted although hopefully not
> insulted although us English aren't all that
> sensitive.

You guys can dish it out with the best of them.



but remember I have the advantage of being
> in CT.....

That's an advantage? ;P

I always thought:

"Rallycross traces its beginning to the 1967 RAC rally. An outbreak of hoof-and-mouth disease caused a last-minute cancellation of the event, but, boys being boys, it was decided to contest a single gravel stage anyway, and a week later a race was run on Lydden Hill, staged by the Thames Estuary Automobile Club and reserved for club drivers. Four cars started each heat, and during all the fighting for both finishing position and overall time, organizers realized they'd found a new motorsport recipe. ("Rallycross Yearbook '82," Eddi Laumanns cited by Frank van Rooy)."

"National championships soon sprang up in England and Holland, and Sweden followed in 1971. By 1973, a formal international championship, the Embassy-European Rallycross Championship, was organized. Brit John Taylor won the first title with Austrian Franz Wurz winning in 1974. In 1975 Dutchman Cees Teurlings won the ERA-European Rallycross Championship. The FIA took over sanctioning duties in 1976 and has organized the championship ever since. The ERC now makes stops in Portugal, France, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Sweden, Belgium, Holland, Norway, Poland and Germany. Strong national championships continue to run across Europe, including series in France, England, Belgium, Holland and Sweden."

http://www.modified.com/events/0306scc_rallycross/index.html

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

wvonkessler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I always thought:
>
> "Rallycross traces its beginning to the 1967 RAC
> rally. An outbreak of hoof-and-mouth disease
> caused a last-minute cancellation of the event,
> but, boys being boys, it was decided to contest a
> single gravel stage anyway, and a week later a
> race was run on Lydden Hill, staged by the Thames
> Estuary Automobile Club and reserved for club
> drivers. Four cars started each heat, and during
> all the fighting for both finishing position and
> overall time, organizers realized they'd found a
> new motorsport recipe. ("Rallycross Yearbook '82,"
> Eddi Laumanns cited by Frank van Rooy)."
>
> "National championships soon sprang up in England
> and Holland, and Sweden followed in 1971. By 1973,
> a formal international championship, the
> Embassy-European Rallycross Championship, was
> organized. Brit John Taylor won the first title
> with Austrian Franz Wurz winning in 1974. In 1975
> Dutchman Cees Teurlings won the ERA-European
> Rallycross Championship. The FIA took over
> sanctioning duties in 1976 and has organized the
> championship ever since. The ERC now makes stops
> in Portugal, France, Austria, Czechoslovakia,
> Sweden, Belgium, Holland, Norway, Poland and
> Germany. Strong national championships continue to
> run across Europe, including series in France,
> England, Belgium, Holland and Sweden."
>
>
>
> My opinions are my own and are not to be construed
> as representing the viewpoint of any other person
> or organization. How's that for legalese?

This is correct of how rallycross came to be, the other may be how it came to TV!

---

As always IMHO

SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
SAAB 99, SAAB 850
SAAB V4, SAAB 99T

SEANT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wvonkessler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I always thought:
> >
> > "Rallycross traces its beginning to the 1967
> RAC
> > rally. An outbreak of hoof-and-mouth disease
> > caused a last-minute cancellation of the
> event,
> > but, boys being boys, it was decided to
> contest a
> > single gravel stage anyway, and a week later
> a
> > race was run on Lydden Hill, staged by the
> Thames
> > Estuary Automobile Club and reserved for
> club
> > drivers. Four cars started each heat, and
> during
> > all the fighting for both finishing position
> and
> > overall time, organizers realized they'd
> found a
> > new motorsport recipe. ("Rallycross Yearbook
> '82,"
> > Eddi Laumanns cited by Frank van Rooy)."
> >
> > "National championships soon sprang up in
> England
> > and Holland, and Sweden followed in 1971. By
> 1973,
> > a formal international championship, the
> > Embassy-European Rallycross Championship,
> was
> > organized. Brit John Taylor won the first
> title
> > with Austrian Franz Wurz winning in 1974. In
> 1975
> > Dutchman Cees Teurlings won the ERA-European
> > Rallycross Championship. The FIA took over
> > sanctioning duties in 1976 and has organized
> the
> > championship ever since. The ERC now makes
> stops
> > in Portugal, France, Austria,
> Czechoslovakia,
> > Sweden, Belgium, Holland, Norway, Poland and
> > Germany. Strong national championships
> continue to
> > run across Europe, including series in
> France,
> > England, Belgium, Holland and Sweden."
> >
> >
> >
> > My opinions are my own and are not to be
> construed
> > as representing the viewpoint of any other
> person
> > or organization. How's that for legalese?
>
> This is correct of how rallycross came to be, the
> other may be how it came to TV!
>
>
>
>
> As always IMHO
>
> SEAN TENNIS
> SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
> SAAB 99, SAAB 850

Well Sean live and learn, seems the Pom is right.

From Wiki:
Rallycross history
Rallycross was born on
4 February 1967 at Lydden Circuit

The sport started as a TV show (with especially invited rally drivers), produced by Robert Reed of ABC television for ITVs World of Sport programme, at Lydden Circuit (between Dover and Canterbury) in Great Britain on Saturday, 4 February 1967. The first ever true rallycross was organised by Bud Smith († 1994) and the Tunbridge Wells Centre of the 750 MC, with the aid of Lydden Circuit owner Bill Chesson († 1999), and was won by later Formula One driver as well as 1968 Rally Monte Carlo winner Vic Elford in a showroom Porsche 911 of the British importer AFN, ahead of Brian Melia in his Ford Lotus Cortina and Tony Fall in a BMC Mini Cooper S.

After that inaugural event there were another two test rallycrosses at Lydden, on 11 March and 29 July, before the new World of Sport Rallycross Championship for the ABC TV viewers started with round one on 23 September, to be followed by round two on 7 October. The series was run over a total of six rounds (three at Lydden and three at Croft) and was eventually won by Englishman Tony Chappell (Ford Escort TwinCam), who became the first ever British Rallycross champion after winning the final round of the new series on 6 April 1968 at Lydden.

However, the true birth of rallycross is often wrongly connected with the cancellation of the 1967 RAC Rally, due to Foot and Mouth disease, in November 1967, about ten months later. Some foreign entrants for the RAC had also planned to take part in the 1st international rallycross at Lydden Circuit, on Saturday, 25 November 1967, but went home immediately after the rally had been cancelled at the eleventh hour on the evening of 17 November, and was replaced by a single special stage (won by Swede Erik Carlsson in a Saab 96 V4) for the sake of the disappointed television companies. RAC rally stage number one by then, Camberley, was on Ministry of Defence land and not affected by movement restrictions caused by the disease in rural areas. Subsequently only British drivers competed in the maiden international rallycross event one week later, which was eventually won by Andrew Cowan and his Hillman Imp. Thames Estuary Automobile Club's (TEAC) premier event, the original Clubman's rallycross, was held the day after. It opened up the new rally drivers' fun-sport to many amateur competitors, proved very successful and thereby paved the way for the first generation of real rallycross specialists, a lot of them coming from the ranges of autocross and autograss racing.



Pretty interesting how the myth is so universal, and how we "know" things", eh?

You awake, Sean?
Gimme a call.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SEANT Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > wvonkessler Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I always thought:
> > >
> > > "Rallycross traces its beginning to the
> 1967
> > RAC
> > > rally. An outbreak of hoof-and-mouth
> disease
> > > caused a last-minute cancellation of
> the
> > event,
> > > but, boys being boys, it was decided to
> > contest a
> > > single gravel stage anyway, and a week
> later
> > a
> > > race was run on Lydden Hill, staged by
> the
> > Thames
> > > Estuary Automobile Club and reserved
> for
> > club
> > > drivers. Four cars started each heat,
> and
> > during
> > > all the fighting for both finishing
> position
> > and
> > > overall time, organizers realized
> they'd
> > found a
> > > new motorsport recipe. ("Rallycross
> Yearbook
> > '82,"
> > > Eddi Laumanns cited by Frank van
> Rooy)."
> > >
> > > "National championships soon sprang up
> in
> > England
> > > and Holland, and Sweden followed in
> 1971. By
> > 1973,
> > > a formal international championship,
> the
> > > Embassy-European Rallycross
> Championship,
> > was
> > > organized. Brit John Taylor won the
> first
> > title
> > > with Austrian Franz Wurz winning in
> 1974. In
> > 1975
> > > Dutchman Cees Teurlings won the
> ERA-European
> > > Rallycross Championship. The FIA took
> over
> > > sanctioning duties in 1976 and has
> organized
> > the
> > > championship ever since. The ERC now
> makes
> > stops
> > > in Portugal, France, Austria,
> > Czechoslovakia,
> > > Sweden, Belgium, Holland, Norway, Poland
> and
> > > Germany. Strong national championships
> > continue to
> > > run across Europe, including series in
> > France,
> > > England, Belgium, Holland and Sweden."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My opinions are my own and are not to
> be
> > construed
> > > as representing the viewpoint of any
> other
> > person
> > > or organization. How's that for
> legalese?
> >
> > This is correct of how rallycross came to be,
> the
> > other may be how it came to TV!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > As always IMHO
> >
> > SEAN TENNIS
> > SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
> > SAAB 99, SAAB 850
>
> Well Sean live and learn, seems the Pom is right.
>
> From Wiki:
> Rallycross history
> Rallycross was born on
> 4 February 1967 at Lydden Circuit
>
> The sport started as a TV show (with especially
> invited rally drivers), produced by Robert Reed of
> ABC television for ITVs World of Sport programme,
> at Lydden Circuit (between Dover and Canterbury)
> in Great Britain on Saturday, 4 February 1967. The
> first ever true rallycross was organised by Bud
> Smith († 1994) and the Tunbridge Wells Centre of
> the 750 MC, with the aid of Lydden Circuit owner
> Bill Chesson († 1999), and was won by later
> Formula One driver as well as 1968 Rally Monte
> Carlo winner Vic Elford in a showroom Porsche 911
> of the British importer AFN, ahead of Brian Melia
> in his Ford Lotus Cortina and Tony Fall in a BMC
> Mini Cooper S.
>
> After that inaugural event there were another two
> test rallycrosses at Lydden, on 11 March and 29
> July, before the new World of Sport Rallycross
> Championship for the ABC TV viewers started with
> round one on 23 September, to be followed by round
> two on 7 October. The series was run over a total
> of six rounds (three at Lydden and three at Croft)
> and was eventually won by Englishman Tony Chappell
> (Ford Escort TwinCam), who became the first ever
> British Rallycross champion after winning the
> final round of the new series on 6 April 1968 at
> Lydden.
>
> However, the true birth of rallycross is often
> wrongly connected with the cancellation of the
> 1967 RAC Rally, due to Foot and Mouth disease, in
> November 1967, about ten months later. Some
> foreign entrants for the RAC had also planned to
> take part in the 1st international rallycross at
> Lydden Circuit, on Saturday, 25 November 1967, but
> went home immediately after the rally had been
> cancelled at the eleventh hour on the evening of
> 17 November, and was replaced by a single special
> stage (won by Swede Erik Carlsson in a Saab 96 V4)
> for the sake of the disappointed television
> companies. RAC rally stage number one by then,
> Camberley, was on Ministry of Defence land and not
> affected by movement restrictions caused by the
> disease in rural areas. Subsequently only British
> drivers competed in the maiden international
> rallycross event one week later, which was
> eventually won by Andrew Cowan and his Hillman
> Imp. Thames Estuary Automobile Club's (TEAC)
> premier event, the original Clubman's rallycross,
> was held the day after. It opened up the new rally
> drivers' fun-sport to many amateur competitors,
> proved very successful and thereby paved the way
> for the first generation of real rallycross
> specialists, a lot of them coming from the ranges
> of autocross and autograss racing.
>
>
>
> Pretty interesting how the myth is so universal,
> and how we "know" things", eh?
>
> You awake, Sean?
> Gimme a call.
>
>
>
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.jvab.f4.ca

Interesting, if I recall Erik used a standard car for this event that was borrowed, by standard I mean as from the show room ... As I recall there is footage of this event and it was a mass start, like motocross ...

This thread is the first time I've heard of another start to rally cross other then Foot in Mouth RAC story. It really is just like many of the club type races in the late 50's, early 60's that were held in dirt fields ... or dare I say early NASCAR dirt track ...

---

As always IMHO

SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
SAAB 99, SAAB 850
SAAB V4, SAAB 99T