Interesting chart which appears to be the numbers of cars in F-cup in Finland, they have gotten the word yet from all the American forums about what cars are best to drive.:
Lähtö AT
F-Cupin 2009 pohja-ajoista automallettain

Kirjoitettu 12/10/2009
Lähtö AT >>


Ford Escort RS 39
Toyota Starlet 37
Toyota Corolla 22
BMW M3 18
Opel Kadett Gsi 16V 15
Volvo 240 7
VW 1302 S 5
Ford Escort RS 16V 5
VW Golf 4
Opel Corsa 4
BMW 325 3
M-B 190E 2
Honda Civic 2
Toyota Corolla FX 2
Opel Manta 2
Sunbeam Avenger 1

Viimeksi muokattu: 12/10/2009 klo 20:58


Now Finns are maybe the most literate people in the world and all of them can at least read Finnish, English, Swedish and many can read more, so it can't be they couldn't read US forums and see they should all be in Golf IIs, it must be something else!

I got it! They're too drunk to remember what they read!
Must be that!!

Here's a typical one:

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Notice how they have more toyotas then volvo's and ford's combined.

lolz

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

A huge variety of cars crashing here -



Man they go all out don't they

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-Jason

re title this video: how not to ditch hook. ouch, these crashes are amazing.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Interesting chart which appears to be the
> numbers of cars in F-cup in Finland, they have
> gotten the word yet from all the American forums
> about what cars are best to drive.:
> Lähtö AT
> F-Cupin 2009 pohja-ajoista automallettain
>
> Kirjoitettu 12/10/2009
> Lähtö AT >>
>
>
> Ford Escort RS 39
> Toyota Starlet 37
> Toyota Corolla 22
> BMW M3 18
> Opel Kadett Gsi 16V 15
> Volvo 240 7
> VW 1302 S 5
> Ford Escort RS 16V 5
> VW Golf 4
> Opel Corsa 4
> BMW 325 3
> M-B 190E 2
> Honda Civic 2
> Toyota Corolla FX 2
> Opel Manta 2
> Sunbeam Avenger 1
>
> Viimeksi muokattu: 12/10/2009 klo 20:58
>
>
> Now Finns are maybe the most literate people in
> the world and all of them can at least read
> Finnish, English, Swedish and many can read more,
> so it can't be they couldn't read US forums and
> see they should all be in Golf IIs, it must be
> something else!
>
> I got it! They're too drunk to remember what they
> read!
> Must be that!!
>
> Here's a typical one:
>
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.jvab.f4.ca


This can't be anything like a complete list. Not enough cars, for one. And where's the Opel Ascona love? Though not as popular as Escorts and Toyotas I've seen plenty of Asconas, and to a lesser degree, Mantas in the Group F videos.

John should get an other Finnish girl to teach Finnish.... He's getting rusty. The list is "Total Fastest GpF Stage Times by Makes in 2009".
In the US it's BIG engines. Look who's second.... beating 330-350HP M3s.
Dave's right, there are many, many more cars in GpF. Hundreds of Asconas, etc.
The other thing; Very few FWD are competative.

---

- RWD rocks -

Stage wins are a somewhat questionable basis for comparisons. If you look at Idaho Rally this year it's obvious a turbo Neon is the only choice.

Topi can maybe answer this...How much does the per capita income difference between US and Finnland affect the type of cars used? Finnland is about $12k less per year than we are. Besides having cars over there that weren't available in the states, or even popular in the states, do they keep older cars longer than here?
Do they have the emmissions laws many of our areas do? Do the wrecking yards keep older stuff in inventory better? How is the rust situation? I'd guess they don't salt roads.

The Tercel and to a lesser degree the Corolla were never popular to start with in the states. Datsun always outsold them here on the west coast and Euro cars sold well on the east coast. Then in the late 80s everyone got an asswhippin from Honda. Undersold or unpopular cars means wreckers don't keep around donors at all. Off to the crusher. This has to have a large effect on what is chosen for sport.

Obsolete parts are becoming the norm here. We just had a 1998 Chevy full size van in the shop, needed heater hoses. Had rear heat so some hoses had peculiar shpaes and tee's. No after market support and obsolete from GM. Took 2 weeks to get 3 of the 4 hoses we needed. It'll be interesting to see what is being driven 10 years from now by club rally competitors.

Frickin Wilson..there is a nice old Chevette across the road from my house that keeps calling me at night...

Tercel? You mean Starlet.
Money isn't everything. There's healthcare, security, freedom, etc http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/05/world-happiest-places-lifestyle-travel-world-happiest.html
Finland has the oldest cars in the Europe! Good for rallyists... They salt roads but cars are well taken care off because they are so expensive to buy. Undercoating, yearly inspections and rust repair is a big business. Plenty of new Korean made repair parts available.
The biggest difference is they work harder on their rally cars and for rally as sport. Here, a guy crashes hard and you don't see him for a year - if ever. There - crash this weekend and be there a week later!
They also have hundreds of "Rally clubs" and to be a rally driver gets you laid - a big factor Here; surfing, skate boarding, rock stardom, Harley, etc gets women. There it's a rally car. It's so simple. And they are crazy about rallying anyway. It's a national sport, supported by the government in small degree. AKK (Finnish SCCA if you will) has rally coaches, monetary help and they tech top promising drivers, like Nikara this year. The clubs pays all entry fees for 50% of best drivers, navigators are NOT ballast but respected professionals and free service help is plenty (they get women, too) and service guys pay their own expenses.
As you see, Finnish rally is doing well thanks to women! And they ARE nice.

---

- RWD rocks -

I remember on one of those Internet forums telling someone how the M3 was turning into a popular rally car, engine is already tons of drivable power so cage it, suspend it, gear it, and go.

I got "No way the wheelbase is too long and the front suspension has too much travel compared to the back and it would be the worst rally car ever" blah blah blah.

- Pete ("We ain't smart enough to know it cain't be done, so we done done it"

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

heymagic Wrote:

> Topi can maybe answer this...How much does the per
> capita income difference between US and Finnland
> affect the type of cars used? Finnland is about
> $12k less per year than we are. Besides having
> cars over there that weren't available in the
> states, or even popular in the states, do they
> keep older cars longer than here?

How many people in Finland are stage rallying compared to drag racing in the US?

I've seen way too many $100k+ street/drag cars to count. (When it's $30k for bodywork, $25k for engine, $5k for transmission, it adds up doesn't it?) A lot of them are regular ol' blue-collar-worker-dudes.

If they were in another country would they be pouring money into Corollas and Escorts and Asconas instead of Camaros and Novas and Chevelles?


> Obsolete parts are becoming the norm here. We just
> had a 1998 Chevy full size van in the shop, needed
> heater hoses...

GM is following in Ford's footsteps in obsoleting parts after 7 years, The fun part is when it is something electronic that needs to be flashed before use. They don't sell the part anymore, you can get it aftermarket, but no dealer will flash an aftermarket component. Fun fun fun.

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Topi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tercel? You mean Starlet.
> Money isn't everything. There's healthcare,
> security, freedom, etc
> Finland has the oldest cars in the Europe! Good
> for rallyists... They salt roads but cars are well
> taken care off because they are so expensive to
> buy. Undercoating, yearly inspections and rust
> repair is a big business. Plenty of new Korean
> made repair parts available.
> The biggest difference is they work harder on
> their rally cars and for rally as sport. Here, a
> guy crashes hard and you don't see him for a year
> - if ever. There - crash this weekend and be there
> a week later!
> They also have hundreds of "Rally clubs" and to
> be a rally driver gets you laid - a big factor
> Here; surfing, skate boarding, rock stardom,
> Harley, etc gets women. There it's a rally car.
> It's so simple. And they are crazy about rallying
> anyway. It's a national sport, supported by the
> government in small degree. AKK (Finnish SCCA if
> you will) has rally coaches, monetary help and
> they tech top promising drivers, like Nikara this
> year. The clubs pays all entry fees for 50% of
> best drivers, navigators are NOT ballast but
> respected professionals and free service help is
> plenty (they get women, too) and service guys pay
> their own expenses.
> As you see, Finnish rally is doing well thanks to
> women! And they ARE nice.
>
> - RWD rocks -

Topi! I never have been able to read more that tiny tiny amount of Finnish--NOBODY CAN!!! And most of what I can read is where you guys have borrowed words from Swedish or German ie keväri or maskinikeväri from gevär, or simple stuff like axeli or nokkaaxeli, or kompani, bataljon and other military or technical stuff. Sometimes some words like vaneet or renkat I can figure out but jessus it's hard! I make more progress with Russian and that with the different damn alphabet.

The list was just supposed to show that for whatever reason more people over there choose RWD cars and that seem to have good success and from what I can tell LOTS OF FUN.
It was also to point out that the most popular FWD car was KadettE, and just how seldom seen is VWs which as we all know is what "everybody" says that noobies should buy.
Fast flowing gravel is fast flowing gravel and you'd think if the VW were any advantage, then stacks of peeeples would be driving them there.

Now what I'm wondering THERE is are we seeing the Finns choose overwhelmingly RWD cars because they work so good, or is it simple inertia like we know the popularity of VWs is based on here.
If "everybody" says in Finland YOU MUST DO RWD for decades, then newbs maybe think OK I gottas do RWD.

The other thing we don't see is people choosing voluntarily to put themselves in modern heavy underpowerd cars like Focus or Mazdog which we see people here discussing as if it made any sense at all to start with a 2800lb 120bhp car.



'

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Here's end results for GpF overall 2009: http://www.tenab.net/rafu/fyle.htm
- See how many different cars are used. Starlets, M3s, Corolla GTS and zillions of Fords are good because there are hundreds of small parts makers (many don't have Email nor web site) and plenty of know-how. It is similar to American Drag race culture or oval track.
Road racing has never been big in Finland. Ice racing used to be but they don't let cars on ice any more. Pollution is said to be reason. However, when Finns go for ice fishing tournament there's 20 000 cars on ice but they don't pollute.... See, our government is so f.... smart they know which car is dirty and which isn't (the real reason is votes; you forbid ice fishing and your a$$ is outta office NOW).
PS. They also have GpF championships for junior drivers: Junior A/B/C. These are the drivers you see crashing out flat out - lots of balls, not so much skills yet . "Seniors" crash too but there's some car control to the end and they don't come to the turn "full shoulder lock".

---

- RWD rocks -

Topi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> They also have hundreds of "Rally clubs" and to
> be a rally driver gets you laid - a big factor

What? How come nobody told me that before? I'm moving to Finland!



> and service guys pay
> their own expenses.


Oh, screw that. I'm staying here.

That is well known knowledge Dave. My new girlfriend is a Finn descendent with a codriving older brother. She drinks almost as much as me too.
I've driven both and I'm a strong believer that RWD is just more fun!

---

Grant Hughes

What? How come nobody told me that before? I'm moving to Finland!
-----
Dave, you didn't know (?) Finland is like Hawaii - you get laid at the airport...

---

- RWD rocks -