LOL I'm actually not on here as much as John is, so it would be hard to always post right after him.

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, I think a GC Open Light car is the
> smartest car for any beginner to start rallying in
> if they are going to build. Helping my codriver
> build his currently in fact.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO


I've actually thought those would be good cars. Newer, more parts, better recognition, light, decently powered, AWD for those sticklers who wont rally 2wd cuz it "wont work."

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

For me it's mostly the $$. As a firefighter I can make the time requirements work.
I could have probably been able to make a decent go of it if;
1. I didn't get screwed over for $30k by my first partner
2. we had stuck to stage rally instead of the BIG Targa events

So now it looks like I sit on the car for a year or 2 to pay off the current debit then try to make another go of it after that. Who knows what's in store?????

---

Ian Glyn-Jones
Panach Rally Team
Ontario, Canada

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've actually thought those would be good cars.
> Newer, more parts, better recognition, light,
> decently powered, AWD for those sticklers who wont
> rally 2wd cuz it "wont work."

Well, except for the recognition, weight and power you're pretty spot on. 2700 lbs is about lightest you'll get easily, 180 crank hp is about max without spending a ton on engine work and then you lose reliability, and when your one of 17 at an event you're not going to get much recognition, not that it should matter. I say that now, but wait until spring and the new paint scheme.

---

Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
> wait until spring and the new paint scheme.

I hope it has boobies on it.

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Anders Green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NoCoast Wrote:
> > wait until spring and the new paint scheme.
>
> I hope it has boobies on it.
>
> Anders
>
> Raleigh, NC
> Impreza H6 3.0


me too! who doesn't love boobies

I thought the gc was the lighter chassis? The two door with the rectangular headlights? I thought those got really light?

And by recognition, I mean if you talk to someone about it and they ask what kind of car do you rally, more people will know of a subaru. Its not so much the fact that its a subaru at the rally, your right, it wont be a majority, except for brand, lol, but its the outside of event. Better recognition = better association = better potential benefits.

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

I'd still want to run a Datsun.

12xalt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd still want to run a Datsun.


Just take over Todds 510! Or is it a 210? Im sure he wouldnt care.

I enjoyed every moment I spent in my 510 rally car!

Sometimes I wish I never sold it but you only get so much room in the garage.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2009 07:12PM by beebe.

Andrew_Frick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> derek Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > OK that is all I can say today - had a new
> ACL put
> > in my knee a few hrs ago and the drugs are
> staring
> > to kick in - I go sleep now.
> >
>
> Have fun with that I have had an ACL replacement
> as well. Good luck with the rehab.

Did mine a couple of years ago too, now I'm lined up for cartilage surgery on the same knee, kinda sucks but Rush' chicklets are awesome -- just be careful what you type while under the influence -- I accidentally told a couple of customers what I "really" felt

I developed some weird skills in rehab, I can now balance on one leg (surgical) on half a rubber ball for ten+ minutes while rapid fire hurling a medicine ball back and forth at a trainer, not sure how useful that is in the real world, but hey, I got that going for me...

t

---

Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec

beebe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 12xalt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'd still want to run a Datsun.
>
>
> Just take over Todds 510! Or is it a 210? Im sure
> he wouldnt care.
>
> I enjoyed every moment I spent in my 510 rally
> car!
>
> Sometimes I wish I never sold it but you only get
> so much room in the garage.
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Nov 18, 2009 by
> beebe.


Todd says "right"

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shenan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think that being able to get out on the
> stages
> > quickly for the first time beats every other
> > argument, but especially if someone has more
> time
> > than money. I've seen at least a couple of
> posts
> > on this thread saying that the problem is
> time,
> > not money, and yet they are building (slowly
> of
> > course). What's the point in that? Do you
> want to
> > be a rally driver or a rally car builder?
> >
> > Now, if you can build a car in a few months,
> even
> > if it's just throwing a cage, skid plate and
> seats
> > at it, that's fine. But to spend years
> building a
> > car while you while you wish to be out
> rallying?
> > That's crazy.
>
> Maybe.
> But lookie Shen, and Hi again by the way, been a
> while since you've posted,
> (and this is all PNW experience and not suggesting
> it applies anywhere else)
> Back when we could get a 510 or a Maz-dog or a
> Opel or a Saab for 150 buck, bolt in a Saftey
> Devices cage in, slap on faily good shocks/inserts
> for $65 a corner and tow or drive 65 miles to a
> Divisional and pay $75 for 85 stage miles, way
> back then we could wing it a lot more on
> everything, and then sketchy wiring, dodgy
> clutch, un-reinforced shell, crappy seats etc
> weren't such a big deal.
>
>
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.jvab.f4.ca

Oh...I know what I wanted to ask you 'old fellas'....so, using JVL's example above, exactly WHEN was this? I'm assuming back in the 60's? Maybe the 70's?

Lets see...back in 1965, gas was what..... $.031/gal back then (http://www.1960sflashback.com/1960/Economy.asp)

so we're up to $3.00/gal now for regular....so that's about 10X....ok, lets use that as our reference point.

JVL said $75 for entry fee....10X is $750 for entry fee....I paid $750 for prescott which is over 100 miles of stages....not too shabby. Gorman was $400 for about 65 miles. Seed 9 is $400 for 35 stage miles..depending on the fun factor, I may or may not do it next year. Idaho is a yes, prescott is a definite yes.

$65/corner for shocks struts....10X is $650/corner, or $2600 for a full set....well, John...you need to raise your prices on the sooper dooper suspenders! you're behind the inflation curve!! (and the technology is (much?) better I'm sure)

$150 for a running car.....ok, $1500 might be pushing it for a decent platform that doesn't need too much work, even an older subaru.


Granted....safety stuff has gone up, but, things are safer....I think HANS are safer, and it IS a one time cost...able to buy them used/etc, etc. Materials on my cage were only $300 or so...main cost was time and labor.

So other than folks getting themselves into more expensive gear for whatever reason...are things REALLY that out of control for the grassroots rallyist?


discuss.

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2009 02:55PM by Jon Burke.

Ok, time and money, which isn't too surprising, unfortunately. The good news is that the situation is at least fixable, unlike other questions like "What is the biggest obstacle keeping you from dating supermodels?" (Oh, wait, that's actually the same answer! Only _way_ more money. )

Here's the next iteration of the question: compared to what you have now (which needn't be revealed) how much more time and money would it take to get you rallying again?

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Jon Burke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Shenan Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I think that being able to get out on
> the
> > stages
> > > quickly for the first time beats every
> other
> > > argument, but especially if someone has
> more
> > time
> > > than money. I've seen at least a couple
> of
> > posts
> > > on this thread saying that the problem
> is
> > time,
> > > not money, and yet they are building
> (slowly
> > of
> > > course). What's the point in that? Do
> you
> > want to
> > > be a rally driver or a rally car
> builder?
> > >
> > > Now, if you can build a car in a few
> months,
> > even
> > > if it's just throwing a cage, skid plate
> and
> > seats
> > > at it, that's fine. But to spend years
> > building a
> > > car while you while you wish to be out
> > rallying?
> > > That's crazy.
> >
> > Maybe.
> > But lookie Shen, and Hi again by the way,
> been a
> > while since you've posted,
> > (and this is all PNW experience and not
> suggesting
> > it applies anywhere else)
> > Back when we could get a 510 or a Maz-dog or
> a
> > Opel or a Saab for 150 buck, bolt in a
> Saftey
> > Devices cage in, slap on faily good
> shocks/inserts
> > for $65 a corner and tow or drive 65 miles to
> a
> > Divisional and pay $75 for 85 stage miles,
> way
> > back then we could wing it a lot more on
> > everything, and then sketchy wiring, dodgy
> > clutch, un-reinforced shell, crappy seats
> etc
> > weren't such a big deal.
> >
> >
> >
> > John Vanlandingham
> > Sleezattle, WA, USA
> >
> > Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
> >
> > www.jvab.f4.ca
>
> Oh...I know what I wanted to ask you 'old
> fellas'....so, using JVL's example above, exactly
> WHEN was this? I'm assuming back in the 60's?
> Maybe the 70's?
>
> Lets see...back in 1965, gas was what.....
> $.031/gal back then
> (http://www.1960sflashback.com/1960/Economy.asp)
>
> so we're up to $3.00/gal now for regular....so
> that's about 10X....ok, lets use that as our
> reference point.
>
> JVL said $75 for entry fee....10X is $750 for
> entry fee....I paid $750 for prescott which is
> over 100 miles of stages....not too shabby.
> Gorman was $400 for about 65 miles. Seed 9 is
> $400 for 35 stage miles..depending on the fun
> factor, I may or may not do it next year. Idaho
> is a yes, prescott is a definite yes.
>
> $65/corner for shocks struts....10X is
> $650/corner, or $2600 for a full set....well,
> John...you need to raise your prices on the sooper
> dooper suspenders! you're behind the inflation
> curve!! (and the technology is (much?) better I'm
> sure)
>
> $150 for a running car.....ok, $1500 might be
> pushing it for a decent platform that doesn't need
> too much work, even an older subaru.
>
>
> Granted....safety stuff has gone up, but, things
> are safer....I think HANS are safer, and it IS a
> one time cost...able to buy them used/etc, etc.
> Materials on my cage were only $300 or so...main
> cost was time and labor.
>
> So other than folks getting themselves into more
> expensive gear for whatever reason...are things
> REALLY that out of control for the grassroots
> rallyist?
>
>
> discuss.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jon Burke - KI6LSW
> Blog:
> 'Holy Shit!' @ 4:10
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Nov 19, 2009 by Jon
> Burke.

JVL is talkinmg early 80's. And you are totally right,imo, that when adjusted for inflation rally is no more expensive nowadays. The real difference is now we have the internet which allows people to vent more or get stirred up more. just a hunch...

That changes things a little bit.....using 1980 gas prices $1.00/gal), that's a about a '3.2x factor' instead of 10x....so, adjust my numbers accordingly...yes, a bit cheaper to run in the 80's. Wasn't there a recession then too?

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/