oh, ok, I see. But they could/would/might have torque differences, then?

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Yes, the torque curves would be different. Also, your codriver might be fat. And you might have a slow leak in the valve stem of your driver's rear tire. And you might have a bottle of water, and someone else might have a half gallon water bag.

Oh well. Go racing. I'm betting the guy who puts his foot down on the gas longer wins.

A ders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Well, I meant big torque differences, but a fat co driver could more then make up for that! haha

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Great plan Anders! Wasting a bunch of $$ to get a restricted motor back to stock hp is just crazy. This seems like the best budget friendly way to go awd turbo. Me, I'm sold on one differential in some old eclectic clunker (xratty)!

well, to answer your questions...

2002 to 2005 WRX's are all interchangeable ECU's AFAIK...they all run the same 2.0L block, same heads and cams....everything else in the engine bay is swappable.

2006 WRX's (and up) go to the 2.5L shorblock and are drive by wire and ECU's are not interchangeable. I think they even have the same heads/cams as the STI at that point.

Since you're not allowing upgraded downpipes....you won't be able to get too much more HP out of them...its a basic 'stage 1' OTS tune...not much more than 16psi peak boost and it would have to be 'open source' to flash w/o a cobb accessport so you better trust the tuner.

The stock DP and up pipe are the big restrictions there....after you upgrade those pieces, the stock TD-04 turbo and oem fuel injectors aren't very good past 17psi (reliably) for about 220'ish whp.

(I was making 240 whp on a 2.5L swap, ported WRX heads, STI injectors, and a custom tune at 17 peak psi).

the only problem is, the stock wastegate and boost solenoid are really picky sometimes...and even a basic tune for one car might not be as effective (or might even have serious issues) in another car. I know I would never take someone else's stock map/ecu, plug it into my stock car, and then go race w/o a few test runs to make sure I'm not overboosting or whatever.



and yes, the only way to 'police' the ECU tuning issue is to do just as you said....play 'musical ECUs'


This would be a pretty cool 'spec' class if you have the numbers to make it fun......IF you have the numbers.

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Anders Green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Here, you get a
> cat-back exhaust and a ECU reflash and all the
> development for the car is done.




AWESOME!

Anders, I think you're opening a bag of problems with worrying about ECUs and reflashes.
I'd say go with the old PGT rule and stock ECU. Make a rule where any competitor suspected of running a non-stock ECU can get his ECU taken. Then either test it on a stock car compared to a stock ECU. Maybe on a dyno and compare afr, advance, and hp/torque to a stock ECU on a test car. If found non-compliant, levy a fine and a public heckeling for being a cheater. I'm still pissed off that the reason for the 5 point fine against SRTUSA was never publicly disclosed.
I would not provide them with an ECU from the sanctioning body or organization. Guess who's to blame when something goes wrong with engine or turbo.
Really cool idea though Anders. Stock airbox required? Stock downpipe? Stock bypass valve? Stock differentials? I personally would say yes to all of these.
It'd be like the stepping stone from Open Light. I'd race that class. You can get a bug eye with high miles for around $5K pretty often. $10K to a car you can compete in sounds like a good plan to me.

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Grant Hughes

Awesome idea Anders. I think some people are underestimating just how fast these cars would be with the restrictor out. Pump gas, sounds great! we have 94 oct here! I would have to vote for allowance to change out exhaust and up-pipe with stock headers.Cats melt, clog and that's no fun. Engine management could be any reflash but no stand-alone. The differences would be very minimal and the people who show up with a car tuned to the ragged edge will be popping motors and breaking gearboxes so that would even the playing field right there. Hoses (turbo inlet, intercooler and coolant) should be free as the stock pieces are un-reliable and provide very minimal gains. you could just set a limit on boost; easily done with a spec boost guage with recall.

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Gone fishing

No aftermarket anything. Air filter, cat back exhaust, allow gutting of uppipe, struts, clutch, and brake pads are free. Everything else must remain stock.

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Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No aftermarket anything. Air filter, cat back
> exhaust, allow gutting of uppipe, struts, clutch,
> and brake pads are free. Everything else must
> remain stock.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

Grant I just happened to be yakking with Anders on the telephone (you remember those things dontcha? Platic things that you TALK into?? ) and like Dave Amor I suggested allowing replacement of specifically the cheesy junk PLASTIC pipe that leads to the turbo inlet since they terminate in a piss ass little 1 ply rubber boot that OFTEN is torn. I don't know about other hoses but 2 outta 3 of the Subies I've been drug into working on had nasty rips in them.

I actually forwarded to Mr Hurst who works for that other business piccies of the OEM junk and splained if he's going to be checking restrictors that he ought to allow the silicone rubber replacement just to minimize the chance of some poor sap tearing the 1 ply junk in the course of fighting to withdraw it during ID checks in PGT.
Miraculously he was receptive and 5 days later there was a new rule bulletin for immediate release allowing the hose change in PGT.

(I was shocked!! Something that made sense was allowed!!! Who'da thunkit?)

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Okay, so a stock replacement part? Still allowing use of the rest of the stock intake system?

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Grant Hughes

As John mentioned RA allowed the use of aftermarket turbo inlet hoses on PGT WRXs, because the stock ones are PITA pieces of crap, especially if you need to pull them on and off to get at the restrictor.

Thinking about it if a restrictor is not required, then the stock piece may be less of an issue. Not a big deal performance or cost wise, either way.

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

tedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As John mentioned RA allowed the use of
> aftermarket turbo inlet hoses on PGT WRXs, because
> the stock ones are PITA pieces of crap, especially
> if you need to pull them on and off to get at the
> restrictor.
>
> Thinking about it if a restrictor is not required,
> then the stock piece may be less of an issue. Not
> a big deal performance or cost wise, either way.
>
I looked at razorblading off the one ply junk and using a simple silicone rubber coupler, way cheaper than a 89 buck Perrin replacement.

Maybe that could be the allowance?
>
>
>
> Ted Mendham
> www.rensport.net

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

As long as you still are able/have to use the stock airbox.

---

Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No aftermarket anything. Air filter, cat back
> exhaust, . . . struts, clutch,
> and brake pads are free. Everything else must
> remain stock.

This.

Maybe allow a manual boost controller, but keep it on pump gas.

And allow Mitsubishis to play too.

99% of your Mitsubishi/Subaru guys on the street have no interest in rally once they see that they have to spend $5000 prepping their car, only to have the restrictor installed to turn it into a Camry for dirt.

Awesome to see people thinking about this sort of thing.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest