Suzuki Swift / Chevy Aveo Rally Cars

Not to be a smarty pants, but I just got a volvo 240 turbo wagon for my daily, It IS spare parts for my rally car, I could use it as a tow vehicle, and it was $1000.
Ha!

-Al the Ludite.

Buying a new or nearly new car is about the worst financial choice a person can make, the only way to make it worse is to finance it.

The world is full of lots of very reliable cars from the 1990's.

Gene is right, the econo boxes of the 90's & early 00's are very good cars, just not very good starting points for a rally car.

---

In the long run reality always wins.

any one remember the "K" cars? once a year when i see one still driving i think of the economy cars that once were... Piles of shit. i wonder what the next fav will be for fwd rally cars...

heymagic Wrote:
> At some point THEY decided that station wagons
> were no longer needed, especially in the smaller
> import line, so we got mini vans. Toyotas you
> couldn't find the motor in, Nissans that burned to
> the ground, Aerostars (whoohoo) and so on. Now we
> have tall mini vans with long noses...hmmm, look a
> lot like station wagons.

But trucks are treated differently than cars, cars have to be safer and cleaner and get better fuel economy.

I don't get the wagon hate. Wagons are the best cars ever made. They're like hatchbacks, except they're squared off in the back, and they come with two access doors in the side to make it easier to get at your stuff. (Why they put inside door handles and window cranks in those access doors is beyond me)

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

I 've had everything from Ford Ranch Wagons to 510s and Volvos. My sons second car was an Impreza wagon. He wanted it. Tires and wheels, drop down CD player, killer stereo, exhaust and so on. All the rednek truck kids at school razzed him but he really loved that little wagon.

Don't tell JVL but we have a Tahoe with tinted windows currently and a 2door Blazer Xtreme also with tint...


As to the replacement for the Kcar....really the Aveo is as sketchy a car as anyone makes these days. Currently I'd give the nod to the ageing Neons myself. Pure crap as far as reliability, longevity and desireability.

BTW the last Kcar here , one of my customers anyway, gave up 2 years ago and bought a new Focus. I only see him for oil changes nowadays.

BJosephD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> any one remember the "K" cars? once a year when i
> see one still driving i think of the economy cars
> that once were... Piles of shit. i wonder what the
> next fav will be for fwd rally cars...


There will be LOTS of super cheap Astras for rallying soon.. and they are solid little piss cutters with as far as I can tell, proper suspension geometry.

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

What about Ford Aspire? kinda looks like a little geo, They look like total crap, but you never know...

alkun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What about Ford Aspire? kinda looks like a little
> geo, They look like total crap, but you never
> know...


I've never crawled under either the Astra or an Aspire.. but I would imagine the Astra wouldn't need to have everything reinforced / replaced and the Aspire would.

But that's me just talking straight out of my ass.

Honestly, I can't get over how nice the astra is to drive.. anemic though.

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

hudson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> alkun Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What about Ford Aspire? kinda looks like a
> little
> > geo, They look like total crap, but you
> never
> > know...
>
>
> I've never crawled under either the Astra or an
> Aspire.. but I would imagine the Astra wouldn't
> need to have everything reinforced / replaced and
> the Aspire would.
>
> But that's me just talking straight out of my
> ass.
>
> Honestly, I can't get over how nice the astra is
> to drive.. anemic though.
>
> Andrew M
> Onterrible
> 30ish

Seems like there was someone rallying an Aspire down south.

The Golf's legacy in rallying is coming to an end. I seriously feel that way.
The E36 BMW will be the new hot rally car. We've got one of the best driver's in Colorado getting into one this year. He's got a 600+ hp Evo, has the Time Attack record on Pike's Peak, many CHCA records including a fastest time overall on one of the hill climbs (vs 900 hp 1600 lb open wheel cars), and has been working for the past few years at the Bridgestone Winter Driving School, same place Tanner Foust and Matthew Johnson have or do work at. I am trying to figure out as many rally specific components that we can develop as possible. Skid plates, roll cages, body reinforcing components, brake kits, dual master pedal boxes, etc. What other car can you build that can make 300 hp Group 2 power, get down to 2500 lbs or so, and have a newish body style that you can buy for around $1000 and have a real rallying heritage?

---

Grant Hughes



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2009 03:20PM by NoCoast.

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Golf's legacy in rallying is coming to an end.
> I seriously feel that way.
> The E36 BMW will be the new hot rally car. We've
> got one of the best driver's in Colorado getting
> into one this year. He's got a 600+ hp Evo, has
> the Time Attack record on Pike's Peak, many CHCA
> records including a fastest time overall on one of
> the hill climbs (vs 900 hp 1600 lb open wheel
> cars), and has been working for the past few years
> at the Bridgestone Winter Driving School, same
> place Tanner Foust and Matthew Johnson have or do
> work at. I am trying to figure out as many rally
> specific components that we can develop as
> possible. Skid plates, roll cages, body
> reinforcing components, brake kits, dual master
> pedal boxes, etc. What other car can you build
> that can make 300 hp Group 2 power, get down to
> 2500 lbs or so, and have a newish body style that
> you can buy for around $1000 and have a real
> rallying heritage?
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Dec 13, 2009 by
> NoCoast.


Hey Grant, big news!! You don't need 300 bhp in a Gp2 car in America.
Have you noticed how well less than 2/3 of that does??

As I tend to ask: who's buying all the new tires that a NA 300bhp 2 wheel drive car will chew thru?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Golf's legacy in rallying is coming to an end.
> I seriously feel that way.
> The E36 BMW will be the new hot rally car. We've
> got one of the best driver's in Colorado getting
> into one this year. He's got a 600+ hp Evo, has
> the Time Attack record on Pike's Peak, many CHCA
> records including a fastest time overall on one of
> the hill climbs (vs 900 hp 1600 lb open wheel
> cars), and has been working for the past few years
> at the Bridgestone Winter Driving School, same
> place Tanner Foust and Matthew Johnson have or do
> work at. I am trying to figure out as many rally
> specific components that we can develop as
> possible. Skid plates, roll cages, body
> reinforcing components, brake kits, dual master
> pedal boxes, etc. What other car can you build
> that can make 300 hp Group 2 power, get down to
> 2500 lbs or so, and have a newish body style that
> you can buy for around $1000 and have a real
> rallying heritage?
>

Grant,

I agree that the Golf might on the way out from an age perspective. I think the E36 BMW will replace the Merkur as the most bench raced / partially built rally car. Not the most raced.

For better or worse most 2WD people rally FWD cars. Based on entry numbers I think that the Focus or Neon will replace the Golf as the most common rally car. All of the development you speak of has been done for these cars. Both were cheap cars to begin with. The last Focus I bought was a 2004 and I paid $1,500 for it. I owned a neon for a while that I paid $400 for and drove it to work every day until it was stolen.






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2009 08:20AM by Andrew_Frick.

Way too many Golfs around to consider them gone at this time. I'd guess the Focus will eventually be a worthy replacement at some point. BMW will never get to the "gotta have" stage in the US. Lack of sales numbers, used shells and parts and reliability perception amoung other reasons.

I think that if Ford gets more involved the older Mustang will make a comeback appearance as a RWD option. Hurst'Utecht have shown them to have the speed and handling to be more than competitive. That would be the route I'd likely look to for RWD.

Too many people wouldn't be caught dead in a Neon, much less rally one.
The Focus will likely remain to be a popular FWD choice.

The biggest setback to the BMWs is how much all of us percieve the common BMW owner to be a total douchebag. And John, yeah, you don't need the 300 hp Group 2 car, but you can get there. The 2.5 V6 starts around 190 hp, a number that's hard to get to without spending a ton of money in a VAG car. The 3L starts at 280.

---

Grant Hughes

hudson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BJosephD Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > any one remember the "K" cars? once a year
> when i
> > see one still driving i think of the economy
> cars
> > that once were... Piles of shit. i wonder
> what the
> > next fav will be for fwd rally cars...
>
>
> There will be LOTS of super cheap Astras for
> rallying soon.. and they are solid little piss
> cutters with as far as I can tell, proper
> suspension geometry.
>
> Andrew M
> Onterrible
> 30ish


I always would have liked to see an Astra come from the factory with the Cobalt SS engine in it, either SC or turbo variety would be good.