john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Saab USA made a lot of stupid decisions over the years and since USA was such an important market, those bad decisions hurt Saab a lot.
Bur GM ramped up the bad decisions and made the cars into Lux-o-consumer products. Worked real well. Today GM says they'll wind down the operations of a place that once made giant killer cars... Amazing really what a small sharp and intelligent little company could do for 40 years, sad what a turgid, fat, stupid bureaucracy laden company could NOT do in 20 years... So long and thanks for the memories. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
derek Derek Bottles Ultra Moderator Location: Lopez Island/ Seattle WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 853 Rally Car: Past: 323, RX2, GTI. Next up M3 ? |
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derek Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > GMs lousy management decisions kills: > > Saab, Saturn, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, The Electric > Car, The Street Car, Hummer, and likely others I > do not know about. > > There I fixed it. > > At least we are done with Saabarus While I can't disagree. It's really more complicated than simply stupid big company kills car company X. I don't know when exactly, but at some point the cost of bringing a completely new car to market got too expensive for many / all smaller car companies. Look at Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, Saab, Simca the list goes on. For quite sometime they were all sitting on some pretty seriously old models. And as we all know, for a combination of reasons, a lot of people get hot and bothered about new model cars. So, most of the smaller car companies got bought out.. problem is as far as I see it.. One of the big reasons the kind of person that went and bought a Jaguar or a Saab was because it wasn't one of the mainline products. Remember the Jaguars that looked like a ford product from 10 miles away? A bean counter somewhere said HEY! we can save a lot of money by pulling this this and this out of the parts bin and put it in this brand X car. Which killed the certain je ne sais quoi that the people who bought the cars were after. Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
Rallymech Robert Gobright Mega Moderator Location: White Center Seattle Join Date: 04/27/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,292 Rally Car: 91 VW GTI 8V |
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randyzimmer randy zimmer Mega Moderator Location: Buffalo, NY Join Date: 03/12/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 196 Rally Car: rallycross 13B Miata |
Gm didn't want to help others build a competitor.
go to: http://www.saabhistory.com/page/2/ and play the "Final Countdown" video for some nice SAAB car memories. |
Topi Topi Hynynen Mega Moderator Location: SoCal Join Date: 01/24/2006 Posts: 226 Rally Car: RWD Rollator GrF |
It's sad, indeed. I'm not a big fan of modern Saab but the SAAB wwas my first rally car. Actually, first two were 96s.
The first one was awesom Short Nose '63 "Sport" (Monte Carlo here). Triple carbs, wood steering wheel and nice gauges. It revved to unheard 7000... and sounded to rev to 17 000 ![]() The second, '66 two stroke Long Nose, started w 3-cyl. I got my A lisence w it and wanted more speed so I dropped in 1530cc Gp2 V4 factory mill, maybe 165-175hp, w 2x45DCOEs. It was fast and evil to drive w LSD! They didn't let me run rally without a new, picky State Safety inspection, so I sold the car. I also put 100 000+km on '70s 95 wagon at work in Finland. I learned to turn hard, stick my head out and see how rear wheel was in the air and still! I'd pull the hand brake a little to stop it. A great show in Helsinki traffic, 3-wheeling away... The 96 was the best SAAB ever. R.I.P. - RWD rocks - |
Rallymech Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > What I don't understand is how it is better for GM > to discontinue the brand instead of selling it to > Koenigsberg or Spyker. Why not get something > rather than nothing? > > Robert. > "You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." > Eddie Fiorelli. I haven't been following the deals at all.. but it might be better on the books to call it an outright loss. Andrew M Onterrible 30ish |
SEANT SEAN TENNIS Professional Moderator Location: SEATTLE Join Date: 01/23/2006 Age: Ancient Posts: 275 Rally Car: SAAB 99, SAAB 96 850, SAAB 99T, SAAB V4 |
http://www.youtube.com/user/amjayes#p/c/90001BC5B8A49360/2/xM3wHdFit4I
http://www.youtube.com/user/amjayes#p/c/90001BC5B8A49360/3/FVzP95k6DUk As always IMHO SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR SEATTLE, WASHINGTON SAAB 99, SAAB 850 SAAB V4, SAAB 99T |
JonArmstrong Jon Armstrong Professional Moderator Location: Detroit Join Date: 03/25/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 49 Rally Car: Rallycross Civic |
Everyone knows that history is bound to repeat itself. With enough time/generations, people will forget the hardships of the past, and then find themselves in a similar situation.
Case in point: in 1929 there were 100's of car companies in the US. By 1945 there were essentially only 4. http://laramie.willshireltd.com/TheGreatDepression.html |
heymagic Banned Professional Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
Chrysler and GM both suffered from too many brands and identity issues. Losing most of the car names is no great loss. The last newer Saab I had in the shop got traded off 4 years ago on an Acura. I haven't seen a newer Saab in our area and only a couple Volvos. The cars are so different from the early iconic models that we really must admit they've been gone for quite a while.
Hard to say if the Saab name resurfaces in a couple years. We've lost Plymouth, Hudson, Studebaker, Desoto, Rambler, Olds, Pontiac here in the states. All had a piece of history, many with some serious racing accomplishments. Life goes on. |
acrane adam crane Mod Moderator Location: Seattle, WA Join Date: 01/28/2006 Posts: 382 Rally Car: corolla GT-yes |
i've still got at least one saab in my future.
just because they wont build some of the cooler concepts of the last 3 years, doesn't mean there aren't saabs around to be driven. hmmm blue 5dr viggen hmmm project 3rd "I put the hurt on dirt" - adam crane http://CraneRallyCrew.com corolla gt-s "Patches" Op: S.S. |
heymagic Banned Professional Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
acrane Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > i've still got at least one saab in my future. > just because they wont build some of the cooler > concepts of the last 3 years, doesn't mean there > aren't saabs around to be driven. > > hmmm blue 5dr viggen > hmmm project 3rd > > "I put the hurt on dirt" > adam crane > corolla gts > Op: S.S. It might be the value of the older cars actually goes up. |
KTurner Kevin Turner Godlike Moderator Location: Newark, DE Join Date: 01/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 364 Rally Car: 2wd Impreza... dude you should do an sti swap |
What I find a little odd is the recent technology sale: "BAIC To Make Saab Design-Based Cars As Soon As 2011 | Reuters By Michael Wei and Doug Young BEIJING, Dec 18 (Reuters) - BAIC said on Friday it will immediately start integrating its newly acquired technology from GM's [GM.UL] Saab unit into its vehicles, with commercial production for Saab-based cars to begin as soon as 2011. Beijing Automotive Industry Holding Co (BAIC), China's fifth-biggest automaker, recently acquired the rights to three vehicle platforms from Saab for an undisclosed sum." -KTurner Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel. |
DR1665 Brian Driggs Godlike Moderator Location: Glendale Join Date: 06/08/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 832 Rally Car: Keyboard. Deal with it. |
GM is so stupid. I'll never buy another GM product.
This whole thing with deals falling apart, it's all because GM is, as JVL so eloquently put it, a turgid, fat, stupid bureaucracy laden company. They are wholly unprepared to hold up their end of any sort of deal, so the buyers, who were willing to consider paying GM's top dollar for damaged goods price, had no choice but to back away. They failed to sell Opel, too, which I think is unfortunate, because it means they got lucky. If they were so ignorant as to cut ties with Opel, which is responsible for pretty much every new model they've got right now (the Insignia is the basis for the Malibu, Regal, Lacrosse, and the stunning, never-gonna-happen-now 9-5), it would have been suicide. The sad fact remains, GM is not an innovative company. They have been bloated, reactive dullards without any real clue to what the market wants for decades. Yet they've moved with a sort of arrogant attitude. "We're the biggest manufacturer in the world, so we know what people will buy." Even when sales consistently prove them wrong, they keep at it. This bailout of GM was a bad idea. We'll never see that money again and all it did was reinforce to them that they can continue on doing what they want to do. They don't have a single innovative product. Everything they make is a feeble attempt to compete in markets already dominated by the Japanese and the Germans. Meanwhile, they continue to wreak havoc on the world. They should all drink a knife. Hate hate hate. EDIT: The loss Pontiac, particularly the G8 and Solstice was sad. The loss of Saturn, with the sharp little Astra (another Opel, natch) and Sky was disappointing. But I weep for the death of SAAB. They might have been in trouble for a long time, but they deserved better. ![]() Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero alterius non sit qui suus esse potest Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2009 11:02AM by DR1665. |
fiasco Andrew Steere Mega Moderator Location: South Central Nude Hamster Join Date: 12/29/2005 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 2,008 Rally Car: too rich for my blood, share a LeMons car |
There are reports of another Spyker offer on the table that allegedly address all of GM's concerns...we'll see.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BJ0SX20091220 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aPAUHW8aHK3c Andrew Steere Lyndeborough, NH KB1PJY |