hot pit stops in Group B?
Posted by eyesoreracing
eyesoreracing Dave Coleman Ultra Moderator Location: Long Beach, CA Join Date: 05/13/2007 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 448 Rally Car: Mazda3, SE-R Spec-V, 510 |
So I was watching this:
http://www.youtube.com/user/amjayes#p/c/E87B299C65D24231/2/euFY2OR7JtE and around 2:00 there is what appears to be a mid-stage pit stop/tire change with a well-equipped service crew (5-lug impact wrench!). WTF? Were there service stops mid-stage in Group B? I was a poor, isolated American youth when this madness was happening, so all I know of Group B is the endless DVD highlight reels saying how crazy it was. Those are big on hyperbole and small on detail, so its hard to know what the races were really like. -Dave |
heymagic Banned Professional Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
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Anders Green Anders Green Super Moderator Location: Raleigh, NC Join Date: 03/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,478 Rally Car: Parked |
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SEANT SEAN TENNIS Ultra Moderator Location: SEATTLE Join Date: 01/23/2006 Age: Ancient Posts: 275 Rally Car: SAAB 99, SAAB 96 850, SAAB 99T, SAAB V4 |
They changed to slicks ... could be a regular service during transit, "open service" ... I didn't watch the video just the part in question. On the "Monte" such as "Turini" stage dependent on snow could make this viable.
A longer service when going to slicks could have included a change to suspension to asphalt set-up ... Rear drive teams on several events with long stages, usually hot with high tire wear or snow where studs would get thrown could opt for mid stage tire changes, usually just drive wheels. Sometimes the car crew themselves carried and performed the tire change, just depends on events, such as Safari. Not changing or servicing like this is a modern safe world practice, also known as a "show". As always IMHO SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR SEATTLE, WASHINGTON SAAB 99, SAAB 850 SAAB V4, SAAB 99T |
Pete Pete Remner Mod Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
SEANT Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > They changed to slicks ... could be a regular > service during transit, "open service" ... I > didn't watch the video just the part in question. > On the "Monte" such as "Turini" stage dependent on > snow could make this viable. I didn't watch the vid, either, but I remember in some video (World's Greatest Rally Cars maybe?) they mentioned that in an effort to keep up with the Audis, the Lancia teams were using super soft tires and swapping them out mid-stage because they were wearing out too quickly to make it an entire stage. Pete Remner Cleveland, Ohio 1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing) 1978 Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver. |
nick the brit Nick Taylor Elite Moderator Location: North Hollywood, CA Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 149 Rally Car: 1995 Subaru Impreza WRX |
I always have been amazed at the Gp B stories where the teams had 2 helicopters with mechanics and parts that would leapfrog each other and service the car after EVERY stage. Damn the manufacturers must've been spending some cash.
Nick Taylor. Knobhead. Los Angeles, CA. |
Pete Pete Remner Mod Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
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Doivi Clarkinen Banned Ultra Moderator Location: the end of the universe Join Date: 02/12/2006 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,432 Rally Car: 1980 Opel Ascona B |
nick the brit Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > I always have been amazed at the Gp B stories > where the teams had 2 helicopters with mechanics > and parts that would leapfrog each other and > service the car after EVERY stage. Damn the > manufacturers must've been spending some cash. > It wasn't just the manufacturers. We did this on the Olympus WRC rally. Ok, so we didn't have helicopters. In 1988 JV and I helped service for Niall Leslie's Toyota Crayola. Me and on of Niall's guys in my van and JV and another one of Niall's guys in Niall's van. Something like that. That was back in the days of open service. Each morning at breakfast the service crews would get out the maps and plan our routes. Each van would leapfrog the other, we never saw each other all day. We would service between each stage, usually near a start or a finish, just right on the side of the road. You didn't have the big setups with tarps and tents, etc. In fact, you really didn't pull anything out of the van at all, just a fuel jug and maybe tires if you were going to change them. If we were servicing near the start of a stage it would be very crowded with service vehicles, spectator cars, etc. We would park back in the line and wait for the Lancia factory team to service and when they pulled out we would zip in and take their good spot up closer to the sart control. Then as soon as we serviced we would hit the road for our next rendezvous point. You really had to rush to make it sometimes. The service rigs were having a rally of their own! It really is safer and more relaxed with the centralized service areas now. I can remember doing some sketchy things to make it to the next spot. There were scheduled main service areas in towns like Shelton and Oakville but this was a marathon event compared to what we have now and since the whole route was open for service you really needed to be there in case your car needed something and you couldn't do it properly with just one service rig. I remember that in 1986 Peugeot rented ten Hertz box vans just to service one car. Five of them were just for tires. One was just for spare bodywork. |
eyesoreracing Dave Coleman Ultra Moderator Location: Long Beach, CA Join Date: 05/13/2007 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 448 Rally Car: Mazda3, SE-R Spec-V, 510 |
Wow, that sounds like fun! I've had a hard time getting friends to service for me because they get bored sitting around all day. I bet I'd have more volunteers if they go to do things they'd later consider sketchy.
Its remarkable to think about doing something like that without cell phones. Planning is such a forgotten art... Back to the Lancia team, I'm surprised to see them using those fancy 5-lug impacts with such a slow floor jack. A couple of air jacks would really pay off. -Dave |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Junior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
eyesoreracing Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > > > Its remarkable to think about doing something like > that without cell phones. Planning is such a > forgotten art... > -Dave next time you're heading up this-a-way give us some heads up and we'll zip over to Robert Gobright's and you gotta see the service plans he had when he was working in Kenya, movement instructions, distances, KM, landmarks, anticipated service, anticipated fuel for car, anticipated fuel for service barge, service area sketches. All I could say was, and I quote myself, "Fawk!". Of course that planning starts with the build of the vehicle and anticipating just how many allegedly skilled buddies you can rope into "doing service'. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
jamesp james phillips Mega Moderator Location: Lincoln, NE Join Date: 02/19/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 38 Rally Car: Volvo 242 GT (in progress) |
Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > > Then as soon as we serviced we would hit > the road for our next rendezvous point. You > really had to rush to make it sometimes. The > service rigs were having a rally of their own! Isn't that why they started racing the trucks at Dakar? james phillips Volvo 242 GT (being built...) Scooby killing 04 Dodge Neon SRT Rallycross monster Lincoln, NE |
Rallymech Robert Gobright Ultra Moderator Location: White Center Seattle Join Date: 04/27/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,292 Rally Car: 91 VW GTI 8V |
"You really had to rush to make it sometimes. The service rigs were having a rally of their own! It really is safer and more relaxed with the centralized service areas now. I can remember doing some sketchy things to make it to the next spot."
Luckily I was young and dumb when I was working at this level of rally! I remember two situations vividly. One was a 12 hour drive to our next service point. We had to meet the car literally in the middle of nowhere Africa. The second was when the senior mechanic lost the keys to our service van. We ended up using an aluminum pop rivet to disable the lock and a screwdriver to turn the ignition. I was driving around 160kph thinking I hope that rivet doesn't fall out! Robert. "You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli. |
SEANT SEAN TENNIS Ultra Moderator Location: SEATTLE Join Date: 01/23/2006 Age: Ancient Posts: 275 Rally Car: SAAB 99, SAAB 96 850, SAAB 99T, SAAB V4 |
Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
---------------- It really is safer and more relaxed with the > centralized service areas now. I can remember > doing some sketchy things to make it to the next > spot. Dave, that statement makes you officially too old! Servicing became boring with central service. The only benefit is a team doesn't have to worry so much about finding service crew with a decent driver anymore. Big events should still have open service. The thought that open service isn't as safe as centralized, I don't get, service vehicles in our events still transit out to the central servicing area, so why is it bad to have them stop on the way and perform a service or two ... I've opened serviced by myself and been able to service the car between ever stage if needed. It gave the crew extra confidence if something happened they had a chance. As always IMHO SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR SEATTLE, WASHINGTON SAAB 99, SAAB 850 SAAB V4, SAAB 99T |
Carl S Carl Seidel Ultra Moderator Location: Fe Mtn, MI Join Date: 02/10/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 765 Rally Car: 1993 honderp |
SEANT Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > The > thought that open service isn't as safe as > centralized, I don't get, service vehicles in our > events still transit out to the central servicing > area, so why is it bad to have them stop on the > way and perform a service or two ... RA wont even let events do road-side service anymore even if it is centralized. For example, at LSPR's Kenton service area you cant service along the main road anymore. So everyone is all super spread out along the few side streets and open clearings around there. |
Doivi Clarkinen Banned Ultra Moderator Location: the end of the universe Join Date: 02/12/2006 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,432 Rally Car: 1980 Opel Ascona B |
jamesp Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Doivi Clarkinen Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > > Then as soon as we serviced we would hit > > the road for our next rendezvous point. You > > really had to rush to make it sometimes. > The > > service rigs were having a rally of their > own! > > Isn't that why they started racing the trucks at > Dakar? > Well kind of, but not really. On the Dakar since the service trucks had to chase behind the cars & bikes on the same route and catch up and service at overnight bivouacs they just made them enter the event from the start. In more recent years the service rigs took a parallel (but sometimes longer) route to the competitive vehicles. Most regular rallies start out of some city or town as a centralized hub to all the different stages and the service crews have a much different route than the cars. Very rarely do they even drive on the competitive sections of the route and only then after the stage is done and opened to regular traffic again. |
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