Best suspension settings for broken tarmac

I was looking at Group A suspension specs for the GTX and found

12" front spring free length
165lb rate
170/110 valving

13.375" rear spring free length
121lb rate
140/80 valving

5" ground clearance and the car weighs lke 2700lbs.

Question to you fellas is this a good setup for a mixture of gravel and broken fucked up roads?

Could this be something I could use sway bars with on the street and remove them for gravel? I'm DDing the car right now on Bear Creek rd,Skyline and rt17 and rt 9, boulder creek and insanity cruz, driving skyline form rt92 to 17 everyday. I need some good shit.

I need to get something going because the current setup of short travel 32mm bilstiens and eibach springs progressive springs is beating me to death, I'm always on the bumpstops during heavy cornering, and the steering doesn't feel very stable.

---

Michael LeCompte

way wrong. Too soft for gravel much less for those roads (I know them all well).
Not even sure it's the same measuring system.

Where did you find what is alleged to be Grope-A (as in grope, eh..)

Look you just going to have to break down and get some good stuff.
Make 3-4 payments and spread out the pain.

Buy the springs I tell you used on Fleabay and day 30-40 bucks a spring.

Do what I tell you, you'll be happier.


Once again, sharing by posting MORE is better. CONTEXT chillins, CONTEXT.

Who
What
WHERE
When
HOW
Informational should have 'provenance".

WHO said WHAT, WHERE, Who said WHAT, WHEN?

LINKS


Don't you boys see how much errors there are in the transmission of "information" on forums, etc?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2009 10:01AM by john vanlandingham.

Where did you find the group A specs? Did it happen to say what sort of conditions they were used in?

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

The factory upgrades for the GTX are here guys http://www.mazdafun.com/upgrade-bf.htm

Front suspension: http://www.mazdafun.com/upgrade-bf-frontsuspension.htm
Rear suspension: http://www.mazdafun.com/upgrade-bf-rearsuspension.htm

It's all in metric. so I converted it to englican (thes english and american synth) measurements. The conversion factor was dividing by .0179, I forget from last night.

I need some good shit, John. You know the deal, it's always raining, the roads have holes, and humps, the sides are missing. earthquake ridden. And this car feels like a skateboard.

Do you give different pricing on options like for DOM vs ChroMo tube and 40mm vs 50mm damps?

Whats a helper spring actually help achieve? From what I've read it keeps the shock piston in the optimal position, but what does that really mean, like in real world talk?


Who = the gtx
what= it needs real suspenders
where= san lorenzo valley
when= right fucking now
why= it rides like a skateboard
how= me coughing up hard earned cash

---

Michael LeCompte

pikespeakgtx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The factory upgrades for the GTX are here guys
>
> Front suspension:
> Rear suspension:


That was the "who": Mazda themselves.
>
> It's all in metric. so I converted it to englican
> (thes english and american synth) measurements.
> The conversion factor was dividing by .0179, I
> forget from last night.

Yeah but for a 2700lb car that makes zero sense.
2050 lbs Escorts in the 70s used 160 lb/in
2500 lb Sierras in the late 80s used progressives with about 320-340 mid range rate.
>
> I need some good shit, John. You know the deal,
> it's always raining, the roads have holes, and
> humps, the sides are missing. earthquake ridden.
> And this car feels like a skateboard.

Like i say, I know all those roads real well, lots of silly miles on them.
I'd always choose them over Hiway 17 when I lived either in the Mt View or San Hose-off or Insanity Cruise or Crappytoilet.
>
> Do you give different pricing on options like for
> DOM vs ChroMo tube and 40mm vs 50mm damps?

ALL my stuff is done is series---I do 20-23 strut tubes at a time so they all 4130 chrome Moly from the first one in '03.
I though that went without saying---very surprised to see those beautiful RSSVP guy on SS.com saying "New for 09!! NOW CrMo!!" Fuck me for $5000-7500 you think they could spring for some chrome moly.

As for 50 vs 40, I am out and no word from Bilstein that they'll bother to import the 50mm inserts they sell elsewhere, so I'm reverting to Plan X, and transmogrifying Bilstein 50mm shocks into 50mm inserts....only hang up is outer finish which i have yet to speak with someplace out West about Titanium Nitride for the surfaces.

So now you have choice of 40 or nothing, CrMo or nothing.

And do recall that 40mm was standard even on GroupA cars that did good into the mid 90s.
>
> Whats a helper spring actually help achieve? From
> what I've read it keeps the shock piston in the
> optimal position, but what does that really mean,
> like in real world talk?

It keeps the spring from coming off it's seat when unweighted.
Lets us run firm, long springs under very light pre-load so we get decent initial compliance and not have the spring rattling around.

The valving also was quoted at 0,3 m/s and Bilstein standard velocity is 0,52.

In a car that weighs same as say a Ford Sierra, the damping and spring rates might oughtter be fairly close on the front and with a little squinting at the positioning similar on the rear.

Have you STUDIED the Sierra, Sapphire and Escort Cossie books??
You should study them. Print them out.

You should call, you've read enough for the last 3-4 years to know you'll have to eventually and you know how often it's been said how little I like to type....
>
>
> Who = the gtx
> what= it needs real suspenders
> where= san lorenzo valley
> when= right fucking now
> why= it rides like a skateboard
> how= me coughing up hard earned cash
>
> Michael LeCompte

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

pikespeakgtx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 5" ground clearance and the car weighs lke
> 2700lbs.

Is the body made out of cast iron? I would have never have guessed.. well I guess I cuold have.. but man that's a heavy small car.

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

Tim Taylors 40mm gtx stuff seems to work very nicely, and somehow 50mm stuff always rubs the tires...

pikespeakgtx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was looking at Group A suspension specs for the
> GTX and found
>
> 12" front spring free length
> 165lb rate
> 170/110 valving
>
> 13.375" rear spring free length
> 121lb rate
> 140/80 valving
>
> 5" ground clearance and the car weighs lke
> 2700lbs.
>
>

Those spring rates can't be right, those sound closer to what stock rates would be. You probably want something closer to 200-225 front and 165-180 rear.
Also, is the car really that heavy? I thought those things were more in the 2500-2600 lb range.

alkun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tim Taylors 40mm gtx stuff seems to work very
> nicely, and somehow 50mm stuff always rubs the
> tires...

Thats great Al, do you have a link or contact where Tim got his stuff?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thats great Al, do you have a link or contact
> where Tim got his stuff?

Michael knows exactly where I bought my parts...some fawking hack up in Sleezattle but I only bought raw tubes and inserts so they actually fit the first time

So John: No 50mm inserts for anybody??? What da fuck?!

---

Gone fishing

david amor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So John: No 50mm inserts for anybody??? What da
> fuck?!

I'm workin on it already....

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Red numbers are with me in it. 2866 total

Green is without driver. 2660 total

So yeah this car really does weight about 2700lbs.

full interior and 3 inch exhuast with 2 mufflers, a res, & 1 cat.
The larger motor/trans might add a little weight too.

In the plus column the cars got no sunroof, no power windows, no AC.

---

Michael LeCompte



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2009 12:44PM by pikespeakgtx.

well, you going to call?

I'm having trouble figuring out what you're trying to accomplish.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

225's and 175's work well on the GTX's.

Those little cars are HEAVY, most/all of it in the nose also. The block is cast iron, and the transmission is a really heavy thing as well.

---

Chris