Try:
http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/
Search for civic
2 pages of 'em came up for me.
Where? allover Yurupe
Why? I don't know what or why compels people to do anything. ;-)

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

I like Hondas. I think that they could have at least as much potential as the Golf. Can someone show me available final drive and trans gear set options?

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> alkun Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > This is actually kind of interesting... I
> need to
> > be more specific with the initial question.
> > Looking for a car that can make a fun low
> > budget,low power entry level rallycar, with
> room
> > to grow.
> >
>
> For who?
> >
>
> some front wheel drive sucker... dont worry John, I actually welded some patchs onto the volvo last night, progress!
>
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.rallyrace.net/jvab
> CALL +1 206 431-9696
> Remember! Pacific Standard Time
> is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Why import a type R? The type R interior/suspension bits will all be scrap for the race car. So really you're just paying for the engine. Here's an online article with details on the 2001+ civics:

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/features/0201ht_2002_honda_civic_si/index.html

I was thinking of going with the USDM SI hatch. It's just a matter of finding a good starter car. The OEM engine is a 2.0L w/ 160hp, still more than most super golfs make. Gearing is not awesome but not shitty. it's got about the same gears as a B16 trans but you got a bigger 1-2 and 4-5 RPM drop with a crap final drive. You slap a final drive on it and you're better but then your 1st gear starts becoming useless. Or you can just swap a Type-S trans to it, which will give you a better 2-5 but still a crappy 1st (~33mph top speed).

Doing a nationwide autotrader hunt. Cheapest one I can find is $6,500 which is about the entire price I could build a good EG/EK without the cage... Going from an EG/EK to a 2001+ hatch will cost me a decent chunk of change more. Probably along $10k more I'd guess (very shoot from the hip guess) to build it. It's also 500-700 lbs more in weight compared to the EG/EK crowd for staring weight. I think if you factor in the extra cost, you might as well just build an open light car too?

But for a basic starter pack, get some JVAB suspensders on it, skid plate it up, get a good final drive/lsd or just swap in the type S trans and you got a decent rally car...

Another thought would be to take a standard 2001+ civic which has the struts up front, and then do the K swap. Granted you're stuck with a 2/4 door car, but it could be cheaper in the end, but I don't see it that much.

MFactory makes perhaps the most comprehensive (and good quality) gear sets and final drives for the Hondas.

Ring and pinion sets are not real cheap--around $700. But can get them in a 4.7 and a 4.9. Honda made 4.2, 4.4 and 4.7 finals for (LS, B16A/GSR and Type R respectively), which are typically less expensive but may be harder to find.

http://www.teammfactory.com


In general the Hondas are a good choice if you want a front-wheel drive rally car for all the reasons mentioned already. The wishbone setup is not ideal for rally, but we've never actually had an issue with it. We've had radius rods or control arms fail when hitting big stuff, but we had the same issues with the strut based 510 as well.

The VWs (early) are also a good choice for a G2/G5 FWD.

Well, a 4.4 is what you'll get with a DOHC VTEC B18 or B16 trans. 4.7's are from Type R trans. They also have a factory Torsen LSD in JDM trans and come OEM on all Type R trans.

K series is a bit more involved with selection of parts but kinda in the same boat. Type R's get the better final drive. If I remember K20 DOHC VTECs all come with LSD (as in RSX type S and Type Rs).

Maybe I'll just daily drive an EP civic (2001+ hatch) and build an EG/EK. Then when that gets tossed around turn the EP once I put it close to the 200k range. I need a cheaper to run daily driver anyway from the STI and I love hatchbacks.

Rallymech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like Hondas. I think that they could have at
> least as much potential as the Golf. Can someone
> show me available final drive and trans gear set
> options?
>
> Robert.
> "You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy."
> Eddie Fiorelli.

Paul F had a 6.33 in his RSX. Let me tell you the ratios felt good and the car felt fast. Prior to RNY we were comparing my gearbox ratios to his and they were similar (His on 15s and mine 14s)but his had slightly less RPM drop and of course and extra gear.

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rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

Listen to Chris, the wishbones aren't a big enough problem to justify a bigger/heavier/more expensive newer Civic. Radius rods and control arms are easy to reinforce. Unless knuckles are breaking, I'd stick with the bones.

On the engine, its worth looking beyond the obvious hot-rodded B-motors and the newer/badasser/expensiver K-motors. (Besides being expensive, K-motors are TALL and most of the swap kits leave the pan hanging too low for our purposes.

Hasport has an absolutely comprehensive library of engine swaps figured out, including some tempting oddball shit like Accord engines. Dirt cheap and full of torque. I don't know enough details, but Hasport does have telephones.

-Dave

Billy wrote "Why import a type R?"

Because I would be importing a prepared rally car, with over 200hp, lsd, homologated cage, rally suspension, skid plates, hydraulic handbrake, etc.

They are homologated for Grp-n and Grp-A. Check out the Grp-A control arms and spindles.

Just my two cents.

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

parts:
http://www.eg6ek4ep3.com/ep3.php

video of how to drive a front wheel drive rally car:




He'll catch those 2 AWD cars back up! She's scriemin' fer eeeetttt!!!!!!! ;-)

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2009 08:01AM by tedm.

Other than power, which we all know doesn't win rallies, is there any advantage to a newer, strut-having Civic/RSX for the guy who values a dollar?

That's a serious question. I don't see any obvious advantages over a lot of cheaper/older shit, but I'm not looking all that hard.

From a casual distance, all the light weight, long travel, cheap parts advantages belong to the wishbone cars.

-Dave

tedm Wrote:
> He'll catch those 2 AWD cars back up! She's
> scriemin' fer eeeetttt!!!!!!! ;-)

Everytime I just read text like that I start laughing. I'm going to add comments like that to the notes when I'm co-driving. I'll just do it on the long 800+ straights that don't dump into 2's so we don't both die of laughter at the end...

But yeah, fully built rally car, yes. Importing street car just to build it into a rally car,no.

I just punched the EP vs EG/EK and it would be $6k more. If I stuck to the stock 2.0L motor. That's also stock trans/diff as well. Add in another $1200 (high end estimate) if you want an OEM type S 6 speed.

Like I said, I got ideas for the Civic rally car. I just need to find a way to save on the cage build because it's over 33% of the total budget. Swapping integra hubs/knuckles will give extra beef and the stamped bones can be plated to beef them up. If the trailing arms are pansies, nothing a trip to the junkyard will solve for spares that you consider remove & replace.

The suspension compression isn't really any issue as you can rub tires on the wheel wells all day if you want, it's getting that droop travel. The rear is limited by the trailing arm, pivot in middle deal since the end connected to the toe link contacts the chassis, which gives you your max droop.

Pete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Except for the first
> wishbone Accords, the wishbones had a strut-like
> camber geometry.
>
>
>
> Pete Remner
> Cleveland, Ohio
>
> 1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
> 1978


If you've ever driven one, or seen what happens when they're lowered you'd know this is obviously untrue. There is a real and very valuable camber curve on the front of a Civic. That's why they are capable of handling vastly better than their contemporary strut-based shitboxes in lame-ass pavement sports.

They also have a lot more compression travel than their contemporary strutboxes, which is the unrealized reason the riceboys love them so much. They can dump them and the suspension still sorta works.

-Dave

I have an undefendable, totally illogical need for the EP3 hatch body, that only came here as a Civic Si. Superior, probably not. Cheap, nope. They just look right to me. That's probably what Tiger told Elin, too. ;-)

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

Some finnish honda pictures:
http://www.jarokinnunen.com/eng/honda.htm