A Volvo on Ice

If you don't know already, last weekend was our Volvo's first event and it was mine as well. The car got through tech with flying colors and received lots of praise. Everyone was pretty excited to see how well the car would do but we were just looking for a finish. The conditions were treacherous, think of a skating rink that is several miles long.

Friday started with some issues. For whatever reason our odo reset itself, so we started with essentially no alternator. This along with rushing around trying to figure out what to do, since it was our first event, made for an interesting morning. For stage 1 I was just driving to road and trying to keep the car out of the banks, since we had no odo and were running tulips. On a 90 right I cut the corner a little too much and nailed an ice boulder, which was the start of our problems. We made it to the end of the stage and drove stage 2 much better. However, there was a horrible vibration in the steering wheel that only got worse the more we drove. We got through the finish control and less than half a mile later the right front wheel came off. Upon further investigation, it was apparent that we broke the studs that held the spacer on.

Got everything fixed for day 2, including the odo and it started to be a pretty good day, as I was beginning to learn how to drive the car and we started to have fun. However, by the first service the studs on the left front were coming loose in the hub. We limped the car to service and the crew did an amazing job to replace the studs and figure out a solution to make them fit right. We made it out just in time but in the rush of things, we forgot to put gas in the car. We had a pretty good time through the 2 runs of the super special and on the next few stages, we were even beginning to catch people even though we broke a ball joint early on in this loop of stages. Then on stage 16 we developed a fuel pump problem (it kept sucking air) and that frustratingly ended our day.

Overall, we had a great time and gained a lot of experience. We also learned that we need to strengthen the front suspension components. A huge thanks goes out to our crew Sean, Kenneth, and especially Ryan who built the car along with everyone who helped out (I know I'm forgetting people).

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Ian Topping
Flint, MI

http://www.thompsonracingfabrication.com/
http://www.teamilluminata.com./
http://www.autoeuropesales.com/

Ian,

Sounds like a pretty standard first rally. Can you elaborate on the stud/adapter issue? They are adapters not spacers correct? I assume that you are running the adapters for wheel selection. I am of the opinion that adapters have no place on a competition vehicle for the very reason that you experienced.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

No, they are spacers mainly so the brake calipers can fit under the wheels. This is one of the issues that we're going to look at in the coming weeks before 100AW.

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Ian Topping
Flint, MI

http://www.thompsonracingfabrication.com/
http://www.teamilluminata.com./
http://www.autoeuropesales.com/

Congratulations Ian!

Thanks for the rundown too, but as that mean old Doivi Clarkinen says; pics or it didn't happen!

I still am curious about your front brake set up, if its not top secret... Did Ryan make adaptors for your calipers?

-Al

Sorry Al, I forgot to answer your question earlier. The brakes are Wilwood calipers, forged Dynalite I think, with ATE rotors from an 83/84 (?) 240 turbo. Adapters were made for the calipers and they were strong enough to hold the rotor on while we were dragging it for about 150ft when the wheel fell off.

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Ian Topping
Flint, MI

http://www.thompsonracingfabrication.com/
http://www.teamilluminata.com./
http://www.autoeuropesales.com/

Thanks Ian.

I don't recognize the rotors, interesting...

I was wondering why you guys were drilling out a brake rotor.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

So in your opinion Robert, would a proper spacer, one that is hubcentric on both ends, held on with ARP studs that pass through it to regular lug nuts be OK? I too am having wheel issues, and have some really nice h&R spacers in the front with ARP wheel studs. I don't know if I can come up with some wheels with the correct back spacing before Doo Wops

That's the better method that I've seen utilized successfully. There was a big thread on specialstage talking about the stress or force or whatever you want it called on the lugs when using a spacer versus using same size wheel with different offset. Conclusion was no difference because the mounting face is the same. Or something like that.

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Grant Hughes



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2010 05:54PM by NoCoast.

I'm ok with the studs going through a hub centric spacer of less than +/-10mm. I misunderstood Ian's set up to be an adapter with separate studs. Those things are criminally dangerous!

I don't agree with the argument that Grant sights from Special Stage. The amount of load on the studs would only be similar if the spacer was a shrink fit on the hub.

The smaller the spacer the better. I would go seriously out of my way to find the correct offset wheel if it were my car.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

looking at his pictures, it was an adapter that was bolted to the hub, with studs in the adapter. What was confusing was he had Volvo wheels on the adapter, so why was it done that way?

I took a look at this photo
[http://www.thompsonracingfabrication.com/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&page=inline&gid=5&limit=1&limitstart=30]
This type of spacer is really shit. Nothing personal Ian, the rest of the car looks to be top notch. Although there is nothing in the RA rule book to specifically prohibit this type of spacer, I would not sign off on it. I have never seen this system work for any length of time. It has no place on a rally car. Ian, please please bite the bullet and get some better wheels!

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

As I understand it, this is all in effort to fit the calipers in the wheels, right? I am looking at the same problem on my volvo, pestering some people about caliper adaptors, 2-piece rotor hats, on and on to try to make it work. Perhaps it time to start a thread?

Al is correct. All of these spacer shenanigans is to clear upgraded rotors and calipers. In my case RX7 calipers and the 11.25 in 740t rotors.

My best shot at overcoming this situation was to retro fit bigger (length and girth) studs in the hubs and pair them with 10mm H&R spacers NOT adapters. Good luck finding an upgraded stud with the proper knurl dia though. We ended up with something that was at least resistance fit and then welded them in. I also bought a cheapie 5mm spacer and was able to just barely clear the calipers with only that but chose the tight fit of the h&n over the thin lose cheapie.

Hopefully this will keep the stress of the studs/bearings/spindles to a minimum.

I would not spend big bucks on Racing wheels with the Volvo specific bolt pattern, especially if looking to upgrade the rear end in the future to something of the ford or toyota flavor. It would be much cheaper and quicker in the long run to change the bolt pattern on your tank. Then wheels become much easier to come by, both in the market and in service. On the other hand, Lane is still running Volvo wheels and I haven't heard much of an issue with them.

Congrats on your 1st event and the perceived completion of your car.

Volvos on Ice sounds great but I am just going to do my best to keep mine "Strait Up!"

Cheers
Pat

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Zap zap my ass...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2010 11:30AM by slidewayswrx.

Easy solution to the knurl diameter problem.
Upgrade to M14 studs. Longer and stronger!
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D6690
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D6691

Or you can talk to John as I think he probably has a bucket of these by now.

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Grant Hughes