Anders was interviewed. (What do you think?)

This had nothing to do with Anders' interview or his comment - I should have said that.

Perhaps my post would have been better in the Off-Topic section.

Anders is correct: "most of the conventional wisdom about building a rally car is completely wrong for a MAJORITY of the participants".

The content of my post was just the last staw/camel's back type of thing at the end of a long day. I wanted to share my oppinion on that subject (not critisize Anders' oppinion).

Andrew, your points are valid. I see your logic. As I just said (and I know it was unclear in my first post) I was speaking for myself, not the 'majority of the participants".

I've done more than "1-2 events", I'm allready hooked. For me, "learning to weld and doing a bunch of custom fabrication" as well as a list of other skills I'm learning, are a great part of the sport I love. But, folks have still felt the need to tell me I'm wasting my time. As far as I'm concerned, if I enjoy it, it's not a waste.

Daniel Buehler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This had nothing to do with Anders' interview or
> his comment - I should have said that.
>
> Perhaps my post would have been better in the
> Off-Topic section.
>
> Anders is correct: "most of the conventional
> wisdom about building a rally car is completely
> wrong for a MAJORITY of the participants".
>
> The content of my post was just the last
> staw/camel's back type of thing at the end of a
> long day. I wanted to share my oppinion on that
> subject (not critisize Anders' oppinion).
>
> Andrew, your points are valid. I see your logic.
> As I just said (and I know it was unclear in my
> first post) I was speaking for myself, not the
> 'majority of the participants".
>
> I've done more than "1-2 events", I'm allready
> hooked. For me, "learning to weld and doing a
> bunch of custom fabrication" as well as a list of
> other skills I'm learning, are a great part of the
> sport I love. But, folks have still felt the need
> to tell me I'm wasting my time. As far as I'm
> concerned, if I enjoy it, it's not a waste.
>
>
>
>
>


Daniel, the difference is an assumption about who and how long a person will want to beat on a car and how hard they want to and how they want the experience to "feel" like....

I cannot begin to conceive of a person building a car and then doing 2 events and dropping out forever.

In fact, if a person did, or people DO do that then i would strongly suggest that the reason they did is because they chose the wrong car, prepped it shittily and it wasn't different enough an experience from their street car (And we have seen the silly polls over on SS.com where people were asked what their street cars were and compared to MANY MANY younger guys rally cars, their street cars were newer, hotter, and better-----a unfathomably bizarre situation in my extreeeemely humble opinion) to make it enough plain FUN to want to continue.

In other words they built something BORING, and were afraid to drive it hard.


Let's be really honest here, the driving level of MOST guys in their cars is really "extremely modest" and sure most guys could drive shit prepped cars just as fast as a well prepared car.

But what happens if somebody really wants to TRY and IMPROVE (an assumption I always make) and is thinking of a longer term participation..???

Cause that IS the only thing that will ever generate growth of events and thereby, the "Sport": longer participation.

Anyway, your comments were not off-topic.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

The trick is to get some stage miles under your belt before babies and wives.
I enjoy certain things about working on rally cars. Beer and friends can make anything more fun though I've found.
I've seen friends get totally burned on the sport constantly trying to fix and improve shit. Not burned forever thankfully, but burnt out for a while. On the other hand, I've seen people (myself included) get totally burnt out trying to build a car. Luckily my addiction is too strong.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and make a strong claim. The people that start building a car and disappear aren't a valid group to compare to those that buy as I think by default they have a much lower likelihood of ever actually rallying. Why did they build vs. buy. Usually deals with money. Thus even if they do finish the car, they may find they still can't afford to pay entry fees, cost of truck, etc.

---

Grant Hughes

Daniel, I agree that learning the fabrication skills and other car prep skills and techniques are also a part of the sport I enjoy. But most racing enthusiasts and aspiring rally drivers do not fall into this category.

Grant, I think a lot of the people that buy a rally car fall into this group as well, but it is a smaller percentage than the people that start builds. They skrimp and save to buy the car but then don't count on the costs of going to events or upkeep.

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
The people that start building a
> car and disappear aren't a valid group to compare
> to those that buy as I think by default they have
> a much lower likelihood of ever actually rallying.
> Why did they build vs. buy. Usually deals with
> money. Thus even if they do finish the car, they
> may find they still can't afford to pay entry
> fees, cost of truck, etc.


I think THOSE people get into it w/o much research...are awed by the vids/etc they see online (or even spectate and see in person) and decide 'I want to do that' and either start ripping apart a car or even go out an buy one...but then see how much work it REALLY is (whether you buy or build, its always going to be a lot of work) they get lose interest.


Overprepped or not, I know people right now putting a lot of work into their p-stock cars.

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Okay, so this kinda reminds me of the new stat I've been reading regarding cohabitation before marriage. Many websites basically state that cohabitating prior to marriage leads to an increased risk in divorce. My argument is that people that cohabit prior to marriage are intrinsically different than those that do not that it's not a valid statement. What's one of the main reasons for divorce? Financial. What's one of the main reasons for cohabitation? Financial. Just because you live together doesn't make the financial issues go away.

Now to apply that to rally cars. I'd say that people that build their own cars from scratch have a lower chance of still being involved than those that buy there car (in most cases.) But it's because people that build cars usually can't afford to buy outright but they can afford to build over time.
There's a corollary though. People that can easily afford to buy a car, also haven't invested as much into the sport so also have a high likelihood of getting bored and finding somewhere new to spend their money (Havir, Iorio, Lageman, etc. etc. etc.)
People that save money over a course of time to buy their own car and maintain it themselves have already shown a great deal of committment by being able to save. Or those that have long term builds, but never lose the end goal and eventually do make it onto stage. These are the two groups that I think are lasting.
Of course, this is all observational as there is no compilation of data that I'm willing to sort through. Maybe someday when I'm really bored I'll do something via rallyracingnews.com to look at competitor retention vs. value of car.

---

Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, so this kinda reminds me of the new stat
> I've been reading regarding cohabitation before
> marriage. Many websites basically state that
> cohabitating prior to marriage leads to an
> increased risk in divorce. My argument is that
> people that cohabit prior to marriage are
> intrinsically different than those that do not
> that it's not a valid statement. What's one of
> the main reasons for divorce? Financial. What's
> one of the main reasons for cohabitation?
> Financial. Just because you live together doesn't
> make the financial issues go away.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO


Grant, if this is the same stat that I am thinking of... that everyone that doesn't think cohabitation is good for you quotes. Then it's one of the most widespread pieces of internet propaganda I have ever encountered. If you can find the actual study, it says something completely different iirc. not usually into conspiracies... back on topic

---

-KTurner
Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2010 06:16PM by KTurner.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18388_6-logical-fallacies-that-cost-you-money-every-day.html

How many times has number 5 been used to justify building XXXX into a rally car?

---

Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> How many times has number 5 been used to justify
> building XXXX into a rally car?


About elevinty bazzillion.

Good link.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Of course, this is all observational as there is
> no compilation of data that I'm willing to sort
> through. Maybe someday when I'm really bored I'll
> do something via rallyracingnews.com to look at
> competitor retention vs. value of car.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO


i dare you to define "value" of a car. i can think of 3 possible different values for your car alone right now.

---

-Mark
www.nocoastmotorsports.net



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2010 12:11AM by Mark.

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> How many times has number 5 been used to justify
> building XXXX into a rally car?
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO


Very interesting. I wonder how many times this is used to keep people in the sport. "Hey I already spent all this cash on the car, I guess I should eat PB&J for a couple of weeks so I can go rally"

Daniel Buehler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This had nothing to do with Anders' interview or
> his comment - I should have said that.
>
> Perhaps my post would have been better in the
> Off-Topic section.
>
> Anders is correct: "most of the conventional
> wisdom about building a rally car is completely
> wrong for a MAJORITY of the participants".
>
> The content of my post was just the last
> staw/camel's back type of thing at the end of a
> long day. I wanted to share my oppinion on that
> subject (not critisize Anders' oppinion).
>
> Andrew, your points are valid. I see your logic.
> As I just said (and I know it was unclear in my
> first post) I was speaking for myself, not the
> 'majority of the participants".
>
> I've done more than "1-2 events", I'm allready
> hooked. For me, "learning to weld and doing a
> bunch of custom fabrication" as well as a list of
> other skills I'm learning, are a great part of the
> sport I love. But, folks have still felt the need
> to tell me I'm wasting my time. As far as I'm
> concerned, if I enjoy it, it's not a waste.
>
>
>
>
>


Never a waste to learn how to do something. Pretty much the only valid reason I can come up with for rallying (besides the fun) is learnig to deal during stressful difficult situations.
For crying out loud, everyone should learn how to make and fix stuff, otherwise, what are you going to do when they come for you with the dogs in the night?