Accelerator overide proposed

I guess "heel & toe" driving is out of the question now.

"The backup safety system under discussion would override the accelerator if the gas and brake pedals were pressed at the same time.

"Why don't we require every manufacturer to do this?" Rockefeller asked.

LaHood responded: "We are looking at the possibility of recommending the brake override system in all newly manufactured automobiles."

Can anyone with a Toyota product tell me if you CAN'T put the car into NEUTRAL at 90 MPH? I blaim some of these accidents on poor driver training. Also how many cars have had accidents that wer MANUAL shift models?

Nick

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Nick Leone
Former scca member

I blame all of them on poor driver training. We are paying more and more for cars, when the bottom line is the drivers operating them are the ones crashing them. Less driver training and more cars doing the driving for drivers...this equals drivers that arent driving anymore...

We should be dumbing down cars along with their prices and licensing drivers appropriately.

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-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
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There has actually been some great research done on this sort of thing.

Drivers essentially choose a constant level of perceived individual risk. As more safety features are added, their driving habits adjust to maintain a constant level of perceived risk. So, for every new passive safety system that is added, a given driver will actually drive more recklessly. Note that this does not just apply to safety system within the vehicle but also to safety systems built into the road (i.e. jersey walls, reflective striping, rumble strips, straight roads, wide lanes, smooth pavement, etc. etc.). In addition, factors that decrease the driver's perception of risk also affect his behavior (i.e. isolation from world outside of the vehicle's cabin, road noise, wind, bumps...in other words the things that communicate velocity).

Anyway, the more a driver protects himself, the more dangerous he becomes to those around him ceterus parabus. Similarly, the more that manufacturers isolate drivers from all the pesky noises and feedback associated with driving, the more dangerous drivers become to themselves & others.

Accident rates and vehicular deaths have been extremely stubborn despite the "progression" of safety technology in the US market.

There is a reason the Europeans don't have cup-holders....

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One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

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I drive my Starlet, hit 60 mph and I start to worry a little bit.
I drive my Saturn, a little better, but that wheel bearing noise really makes me feel more comfortable driving 60 and below, just in case.
I drive my girlfriend's 01 Legacy with Nokians and suddenly going 90 mph over Vail pass in a snow storm with snow packed roads just really isn't that big of a deal.

Get rid of sound deadening. Make people hear road noise. No better way to get a sense of speed. Screw 5 mph crash tests, I'd rather see 50 mph decibal level government tests.

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Grant Hughes

Those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

I like how when ABS was new but getting common enough for statistical data to become relevant, the insurance companies found that the rate of single-vehicle accidents (read: driver error 99% of the time) was HIGHER for vehicles with ABS.

Shortly after that, most carriers stopped discounting for ABS.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Yeah I would totally agree with Grant. When you go fast in my beater Subie, you know it. And the Mazda...driving that thing on the freeway is like being inside a 50 year old airplane. Cruising in my friends S4 though, you could be doing 110 and think you were doing 50. The experience is so detatched these days.

But yeah, I keep wondering about the neutral thing too. And with all the paddle shifting and Nissan auto blip stuff in the cars you would heel toe these days...heel toe is dead.

just to see the other day, I was on a test drive in a 07 Mercedes with keyless go, at 50mph I hit the start/stop button, and the engine stopped. That car had the new stalk shifter for the auto, with a push button for park, I was tempted to see what would happen, and yes, you can put it in neutral while moving

Eh no big deal. BMW, VW, AUDI, porsche etc have been doing this for years. It is smarter than just:

If gas = "On" and brake = "On" then
Throttle output = "0"
End If

Ah crap.... too much programming for me today.

It takes into consideration which was pressed first and the amount of pressure and I'm sure a bunch of other things

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-Jason

I've never known a car that DIDN'T have the brake over-ride feature.

Your brakes are 5-10 times more powerful than your engine. Hit gas and brake at the same time. Your car stops. Override accomplished.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Anders Green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've never known a car that DIDN'T have the brake
> over-ride feature.
>
> Your brakes are 5-10 times more powerful than your
> engine. Hit gas and brake at the same time. Your
> car stops. Override accomplished.

Yup. And that police officer in California who died with his family had time to find a cell phone, look at it, dial 911, and explain the problem. Maybe, if he'd had that hand free to shift into neutral while standing on the brakes, they'd be alive today.

But since so many of us are out of work and looking for a handout, let's see if we can't get a giant class action lawsuit going to sue Toyota. Heaven forbid we should actually be responsible for the operation of our vehicles. Moreover, we should be financially compensated generously for the inconvenience of having to worry about where to place blame for our own failures at some point in the future.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

Back to the Audi days and the original accuser finally admitted to hitting the wrong pedal and driving thru the garage. Millions of dollars spent of research and lawyers.

Seesm odd that the brakes, throttle, transmission, ignition switch all fail on the same car at the same time. That there is some shitty luck...I'm surprised the cell phones keep working, wonder if they used "Sprint"....

Anders Green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've never known a car that DIDN'T have the brake
> over-ride feature.
>
> Your brakes are 5-10 times more powerful than your
> engine. Hit gas and brake at the same time. Your
> car stops. Override accomplished.
>
> Anders
>
> Raleigh, NC
> Impreza H6 3.0


In all fairness - with power assisted brakes that run off of engine vacuum. At WOT you will probably only get 1 or maybe 2 presses before you're out of vacuum and then are on full manual brakes. So if they let up for any reason they could be in for trouble - but yes no excuse for not shifting to neutral

Unless of course you have a diesel with a pump

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-Jason

mack73 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In all fairness - with power assisted brakes that
> run off of engine vacuum. At WOT you will probably
> only get 1 or maybe 2 presses before you're out of
> vacuum and then are on full manual brakes. So if
> they let up for any reason they could be in for
> trouble - but yes no excuse for not shifting to
> neutral
>
> Unless of course you have a diesel with a pump
>
> 94 Golf
> www.Mack73.com


I imagine some folks get into this situation, feel the pedal get hard to push, and think that their brakes don't work anymore.

Actually had to explain this to my brother - check valve on his brake booster was sticking open on cold mornings, and he though his brakes weren't working. I said - just push harder.

//agree with the post on Jalopnik saying anyone who files one of the power steering complaints that we're seeing, should be required to drive a car w/ no power steering, no power brakes, std tranny etc. for one year.

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KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

Training is the best solution but the least likely to be implemented.

I contrast the training I got to fly an airplane vs driving or even the motorcycle license class vs driving - the part on risk management & emergency procedures is what needs to be added to the drivers tests.

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In the long run reality always wins.