Why wouldn't this work?

I'm pretty sure I got this idea from a conversation with JVL a couple months back. It's stuck with me and I think it's quite possibly the greatest rally idea I've ever heard.

Open up entries to enthusiasts in mildly prepped cars (mostly safety equipment) to run the stages after fast sweep goes through. Limit them to a time no faster than that of the slowest rally car plus 2 minutes or something. Beat the slowest rally car twice and you're done, stuck behind slow sweep all the way out without a refund.

Limit entries to 10 to ensure the rally isn't delayed. Charge $250 entry fee to participate, $50 of which covers a proper tech inspection. Vehicles need a harness bar, harnesses, seats, helmet, triangle, spill kit and rally tires (including minimum of one spare). Fail tech and the $200 balance is refundable.

Stage roads are closed, radio net is up and monitoring each car, emergency response is on-hand, risk of expulsion from the event keeps speeds low (but still fast enough to be fun, even if just because you can use the whole road in blind corners), limited number of participants keeps event on schedule while keeping demand high, encourages would-be rallyistas to invest in legitimate rally modifications they won't have to replace later, emphasizes safety, provides an attainable step between rallycross and stage rally for a sort of feeder series, 10 participants at $250/each would be an extra $2500 in revenue for the event towards maybe subsidizing rookie entry fees or whatever.

Maybe even split the group in half. While 5 of the participants drive the morning stages, the other 5 work them alongside a tenured course worker who can mentor them. Have the switch in the afternoon. Now they financially contribute to the event, invest in legitimate prep, experience brisk, yet safe driving on stage roads, experience time controls, and learn what it takes to run an event from both sides.

Why is this just a pipe dream? If this existed, I'd make it out to at least 4 events a year to do it.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

Interesting. Sounds relatively feasible.

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

There seems to be a lot of ideas out there to get cars back out in the woods. The problem is that organizers and sanctioning bodys dont care! Its there way or the highway!

Think about it.... If they force you to wear a fire suit to run around in someones back yard than why would they let just anybody out there on a stage road!

They are not in the buisness to try to get the general popluation into this special sport. Look at the entry fees? Media coverage? Rules,ect ect.

I see lots of great ideas posted on line that all get shot down. Why?

Why can you go do a hill climb in a street car for just a few bucks? No cage?
Other groups out there seem to make it work, why cant rally?

I think if the people that make the rules wanted to get more involved in rally they would. But they dont and thats just what it is in the U.S. If you cant even get the two major sanctioning bodys to accept each others licences, that kind of tells you what they think!

They have it the way they like it and they dont want anyone to fuck with it!


The End!

beebe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There seems to be a lot of ideas out there to get
> cars back out in the woods. The problem is that
> organizers and sanctioning bodys dont care! Its
> there way or the highway!
>
> Think about it.... If they force you to wear a
> fire suit to run around in someones back yard than
> why would they let just anybody out there on a
> stage road!
>
> They are not in the buisness to try to get the
> general popluation into this special sport. Look
> at the entry fees? Media coverage? Rules,ect ect.
>
>
> I see lots of great ideas posted on line that all
> get shot down. Why?
>
> Why can you go do a hill climb in a street car
> for just a few bucks? No cage?
> Other groups out there seem to make it work, why
> cant rally?
>
> I think if the people that make the rules wanted
> to get more involved in rally they would. But they
> dont and thats just what it is in the U.S. If you
> cant even get the two major sanctioning bodys to
> accept each others licences, that kind of tells
> you what they think!
>
> They have it the way they like it and they dont
> want anyone to fuck with it!
>
>
> The End!

Not even close to true. I am sorry if you have run into to people in the rally community that preach that kind of bullshit. There are many people involved in all aspects and organizations associated with rally in the US working torwards the right formula to reduce the cost of entry into rally without sucking the fun out of it and setting up everyone involved for stupid frvilous laysuits.

AND HERES A FEW WORDS IN ALL CAPS SO YOU KNOW ITS A PROPER RANT.

---

Matt Smith

Racing in glorious black and red

My daily life is a Saab story (sold!)

I sent a proposal to RA and NASA about something similar to this a year or two ago. I called it the Brisk TSD class and based it off of the grand touring classes at targa newfoundland. Those classes at targa newfoundland are the most popular.

The reply that I got was that it was a "recipe for disaster" citing people being irresponsible and speeding and dangerous and killing themselves and everyone else not covered head to toe in fia rated clothing within a 1 mile radius, or something, as the reason.

I had a whole system of checks and balances laid out to monitor and penalize unruly competitors with very minimal, if any, additional workers needed.

I dont believe I ever got a reply from NASA.

I once drove my stock automatic grocery getter on street tires when I worked the long Newwatzel stage at instruction 4 or something. After last rally car went by I radioed for permission to run the stage as a early fast sweep, some 3 or 4 min after the last car...

I caught them about 2/3rd of the way through the stage in about 15 miles I made up the 4ish min on the slowest cars...

The slowest rally cars are really slow.

---

In the long run reality always wins.

derek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I once drove my stock automatic grocery getter on
> street tires when I worked the long Newwatzel
> stage at instruction 4 or something. After last
> rally car went by I radioed for permission to run
> the stage as a early fast sweep, some 3 or 4 min
> after the last car...
>
> I caught them about 2/3rd of the way through the
> stage in about 15 miles I made up the 4ish min on
> the slowest cars...
>
> The slowest rally cars are really slow.
>
>
>
> See me go at:
> www.11tenths.com
> In the long run Reality always wins.

Yep.

Slowwpoke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> derek Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I once drove my stock automatic grocery
> getter on
> > street tires when I worked the long
> Newwatzel
> > stage at instruction 4 or something. After
> last
> > rally car went by I radioed for permission to
> run
> > the stage as a early fast sweep, some 3 or 4
> min
> > after the last car...
> >
> > I caught them about 2/3rd of the way through
> the
> > stage in about 15 miles I made up the 4ish
> min on
> > the slowest cars...
> >
> > The slowest rally cars are really slow.
> >
> >
> >
> > See me go at:
> > www.11tenths.com
> > In the long run Reality always wins.
>
> Yep.
>


Hey, numb nuts, he's haint tqalking bout youse!

QAnd on a related note, didya check out any of the Ovlovs I found for you?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

what is to stop a car from driving as fast as they can when out of sight of marshalls and then just puttering really slow for the last bit of the stage to stay under the target time?

dont think it is a terrible idea, just trying to poke holes in it so you can strengthen your defense.

i also see a danger of this class cannibalizing the regular entries a bit. why build a rally car and pay the huge entry fee when you can slap in a 4pt. bar in a $500 beater (i am sure a $500 beater can be made to pass tech on the cheap) and drive on the same roads for a fraction of the cost?

some stage roads are way to beat for a street car to run after it has been passed over by all the rally cars twice.

that being said, i have always thought that a TSD run the day after the rally would be pretty fun.

> Open up entries to enthusiasts in mildly prepped
> cars (mostly safety equipment) to run the stages
> after fast sweep goes through. Limit them to a
> time no faster than that of the slowest rally car
> plus 2 minutes or something. Beat the slowest
> rally car twice and you're done, stuck behind slow
> sweep all the way out without a refund.

Unfortunately, they will be crawling, and having little fun...
EMT Sweep at HDT gave the n00bs a 2 minute head start on a 6 mile stage. A mile from the end they caught them.

Catching cars on stage that you can't pass is no fun.

If we come up with a 'new sport' to save rally - we are no better then Euro Rallycross.

You could organize a brisk TSD on those roads. God help you if you get some serious TSD people out there - as they will be mad they can't possibly "zero" the stage. Flip side - you have a bunch of flat bills out there trying to "rally drive" and could care less about CAS and checkpoints, which is no good either. (We had a bunch of guys do this way back when I ran Pine Barrens Express in NJ with the WRX. It's how I came up with the term "asshole TA"

I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing.
Running a cheap, local event with the best roads I can 'grade' or find.

I have only 2 wild ideas about rally right now.
1. Spectators will actually grow the sport.
2. If you figure out why people left rally, you might be able to do something about it - instead of just guessing. (I stole that from someone )

- Kris

I should add...

I was once the really slow guy at the back of the pack (last car on the road with no chance of catching the car in front) and I did the above with out a route book, notes or even a co-driver.

Also since a number of pro rally cars stuff it on any given stage, our TSD rally would I guess get to pull them out or something, unless sweep ran first.

Derek

---

In the long run reality always wins.

I think this sounds like a great idea.

Drivers can just as easily do dangerous things at regular & brisk TSD events as they can at an event like this so I don't think that "the sky is falling" arguments about stupid people doing stupid things flys in this case. Run it as a TSD--street cars, no harnesses, no fire suits, no helmets...


I really like the idea of entrants running 1 day's worth of stages and working 1 day's worth of stages so they can learn how everything works--time controls, etc...

---

____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

Carl S Wrote:
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> I sent a proposal to RA and NASA ...
> I dont believe I ever got a reply from NASA.

Carl, I don't remember receiving it. Sorry for not responding. NRS doesn't have an office, and a Friday meeting where we cover all the topics for the week.

Something for everyone to remember, is that even if you have a great idea, and give it to us, it's not going to be the only great idea that's happening at NRS. And to move up the priority chain to "Anders is working on that now", past all the ideas *I* have already, well that will have to be a real doozy.

I get plenty of ideas that would make a rally 1%, 3%, 10% better. Here's what they are competing against: my new daughter, my wife, my job, and my own ideas for rally. Coming up with ideas is easy, getting them done is a lot harder. I have 119 things left to do for Rally Tennessee, and I have 236 left to do for Black River Stages. That doesn't count any of the sanctioning body work at all.

So if you have a great idea and really want to see it happen, be prepared to do 99.6% the work yourself. That's the research, creation, publication, promotion, meetings, travel, consensus building, event oversight, post-event follow up, press, and maintenance involved in your idea. That's exactly the same standard and level of effort FOR EVERY IDEA I HAVE. It applies to me, it applies to you.

Or, I can put it in my "Nothin' ten grand wouldn't fix." folder.

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Brian wrote (his idea)
-------------------------------------------------------

Anders Green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting. Sounds relatively feasible.


beebe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There seems to be a lot of ideas out there to get
> cars back out in the woods. The problem is that
> organizers and sanctioning bodys dont care! Its
> there way or the highway!

Uh, maybe you don't know who I am?

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Rally organizers are some of the most passionate rally supporters there are. Nobody invests that kind of time and energy (and money) into putting on a lucky-to-break-even event for other people without being in love with the sport deep down in the bottom of their heart.

Had I thought my idea through far enough to address such issues as people paying $250 to enter and having a shitty time because they either caught the car ahead of them or tried to skirt the rules, overcooked it in a corner, and stuffed their still-making-payments-on-it flatbrimmobile? No, but I didn't want to post this in the rally handicap thread over on SS.

I think Anders reply highlights a couple interesting points.

1. The powers that be surely have more than enough on their plates. There is no shortage of fires to be put out, status quo to be saved from external bureaucracies, and brave new ideas to consider and implement. So much is required just to keep rally from dying out completely in the US, and the already over-taxed resources working to save the sport (and grow it where possible) just don't have the means to make it happen. To suggest the organizers or sanctioning bodies drop everything and change direction is akin in order to save rally is akin to their asking every competitor to attend every event in their region in a year.

Blood from a stone. Doesn't mean the stone doesn't care.

2. Who says we need to go through existing sanctioning bodies anyway? If we're going to save rally by creating something other than rally, it stands to reason that a rally sanctioning body shouldn't be bothered.

Hmmm... I wonder. If net change in elevation over a stage is positive, could it be considered a hill climb? Haha. A 13ft hill climb.

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest