I lost my radiator fan and motor mount at wild west last year, so I ran the stage as a transit and took notes for the next running of the stage while laying off the motor to make it back to service. We ran faster than a third of the field through the stage...all at very safe risk free speeds we pulled a minute off that time on the second running

there are some very slow cars at the back of the pack, maybe the tsd would be a good starter option...we started doing teds before stage rallies to get used to working together and to get an idea of what we were doing

---

-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
Spitfire EFI | Product Apparel | JVAB Imports | NLS | AP Tuning | USRT

Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA

Greg Donovan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what is to stop a car from driving as fast as they
> can when out of sight of marshalls and then just
> puttering really slow for the last bit of the
> stage to stay under the target time?
>

i once did a tsd and got stopped at a railroad crossing for like 10 minutes. hauled ass to catch up. similar in concept to the above.

---

-Mark
www.nocoastmotorsports.net

at desert storm this year the first stage on the first day was canceled....so we all transited it to the next one. so closed roads, but no competition.

of course they still spaced us out since they just treated it like an ATC.

Had a lot of fun taking the stage at about 75%...still got sideways on the 3's and 4's...and just didn't turn it on for the 5/6s and straight aways. it was a fun little 'warm up' before really getting into it.

NO ONE went off
NO ONE broke anything
NO delays or need for sweep

Did we catch people? sure...then we just slowed down and then sped up. If I was in a non-caged car with minimal safety equipment, just getting into rally, this would have been a cool experience.

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Damn it's nice to see some discussion.....

This was something dome at Wild West 1984, and i was in the "Target time" type rally behind the main thing and of the approx 21 cars doing the Fun bit behind sumpin like 12-13 or so went on to build cars cause they had a chance to 'dip the toe in' and since recruitment has always been my No1 concern followed closely by RETENTION, this idea is something that I've blabbed about since fawkin 1984..

It happened then, because people wanted it to.

If can happen again---if people want it to...


And we're not all gonna die!!!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Just to get Chris B up to speed about organizers and sanctioning bodies who don't give a shit - I suggest you read this:
http://specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39614

***

Laughlin / Ramada used to run a Magellen GPS sponsored rally. Which I guess was a kind of geocache TSD. It was expensive to enter, and was not marketed to rally people.
BUT - it was a concurrent event with the Stage Rally, and it apparently took you out to places where you could spectate the rally. (I know - spectators - gasp!)

This couldn't work in a lot of places, but if you had a bunch of public roads at your rally, you could use a loose TSD concept to get your spectators out to locations. Keep them on a route and a schedule. This way you KNOW where the majority of your spectators are going to be, at what time, etc.

If organized or not, people are going to hoon around on your stages. Devil you know, devil you don't.

- Kris

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And we're not all gonna die!!!

Word is born.

There is no feeder series. Rallyx gives people a taste, but as the saying goes, that second step is a doozie.

Question: What does it take to get started in rallyx?
Answer: About $50.

Decide you want to "rally" Friday afternoon, show up Saturday morning, throw less than $100 on the table, borrow a helmet, and spend the day mixing things up. Get hooked? Fine. Buy your own helmet. Total investment required? Less than $500.

Question: What does it take to get started in rally?
Answer: At least $7000.

Decide you want to rally Friday afternoon, spend the next six months searching for a $5000 used rally car on the opposite side of the country that doesn't need any updates or repairs, another $1000 on required safety gear in your size, then another $1000 or more on the entry fee, travel to/from the event, accommodations/food/gas on rally weekend.

Question: What are rally fans being sold as rally?
Answer: X-Games, KB/TP motorsport spectacular, turbo, AWD, Monster Redbulls!

Decide you want to rally Friday afternoon, start shopping for an EVO or WRX because those are the only rally cars we get over here in North America. Citroen, Peugeot, Skoda aren't sold here and you've never seen a Volvo, VW, or otherwise old car rally on TV. Maybe you've already got the EVO/WRX, so you're halfway there, right?

Find a rally forum, introduce yourself, share your dream. Once the bitter, jaded dogs are done picking it apart and lambasting you for your wanton stupidity, pick up the pieces of your dream, bind them together with blind resolve, and begin dealing with the us-vs-them sanctioning bodies. Decide to build your car to the rules of this group because they are safer, but since they won't let you run your car because you're a rookie, decide to compete in the other series.

A year goes by. You've spent $20,000 building a "proper" rally car, you've paid your entry fee, you're sitting in line at ATC, adrenaline pumping, fingers and toes tingling with anticipation, all the blood, sweat, tears, and forum bullshit behind you all leading up to this one moment wherein your dream will finally come true. The flag is lifted from the windshield, you drop the clutch and put the hammer down. First !! gets a bit hairy. Oh shit. You can't stuff your dream, better ease up a bit lest you stuff it and this was all for nothing.

Since you've got a couple months between the other 1.3 events you can afford to enter this year, you take the car out to the random local car show and help grow the sport. When flatbrim walks up and shares his dream with you, be sure to relate the story of your prohibitively expensive journey in a subtle, yet dismissive tone of voice.

Then lose your shit when said flatbrim is able to get 20 people together on a week's notice to go out and close off a dirt road in the woods so they can "rally" for a Saturday afternoon.

Hmmm...

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

> QAnd on a related note, didya check out any of the
> Ovlovs I found for you?
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.rallyrace.net/jvab
> CALL +1 206 431-9696
> Remember! Pacific Standard Time
> is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.


I did check them out. You've definitely proved your point that you can't pay too little for a good volvo shell. As I get closer to a grp 5 build, I'll check into it again. Thanks a bunch for your help!

DR1665 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then lose your shit when said flatbrim is able to
> get 20 people together on a week's notice to go
> out and close off a dirt road in the woods so they
> can "rally" for a Saturday afternoon.

Why would you lose your shit? It's flatbrim who loses his shit if someone wrecks. Hope there isn't a fatality either cause flatbrim could find himself in prison for manslaughter for organizing such a thing.

Why does rally have to be so hard? You know what it took to build my car? Well, first I went and got a second job and poured all of that extra income into the car. I lived off Peanut Butter sandwiches. I lived in the most ghetto house I could stand, then with as many as three roommates. I don't have a daily driver car either cause I hate car payments and insurance payments. Eventually I went to grad school after I did the math and realized the added earnings that would bring me in my lifetime. I don't own a television, I don't spend $100 a month on cable TV or $25 per month on Netflix. I do not have high speed internet. I actually hate that I have to pay monthly for my cell phone bill. My one pair of shoes I wear until they have holes in the bottom. Can't tell you when the last time was I went to a mall or Target type place.

This is not meant to come off in a bad way, but rally is not a sport for those that lack the committment to do whatever it takes to do it. I've found filming to be a way to be involved and still have fun at a much lower expense. Volunteering, organizing, crewing, and codriving are all amazing ways to be involved without having to spend a ton. Stomp stomp, but I want to drive! Well, then, figure out a way to make it happen. There's some serious money to be made in Canada in the oil fields. Go work two weeks on, two weeks off and you can make $10-15K a month (did I mention half the month you're off.)

---

Grant Hughes



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2010 03:08PM by NoCoast.

I don't think this is a horrible idea. Though all your talking about is a TSD and those already happen all over the country. The good thing in this idea is that you are combining two sports and reducing the burden of organizational teams to some extent, though way increasing the boredom of volunteers and such that are stuck waiting.

---

Grant Hughes

Cool to hear that did that at the Laughlin rally! I've thought of that idea before, make a TSD type rally instructions for spectators and they have their own route to follow. their prize is watching rally car zoom by. Jeepers may really love it and you could send them down super rough roads.

I do really like the TSD Behind the rally cars Idea, looks like it ran in 84'

It could be done by Invitation only, possibly to be eligible you have to have volunteered at a rally before.


Not to thread jack too bad, BUT! I've also had an idea of trying to setup a tour bus that would take spectators out to the stages, from an easy to find location back in town. said tour bus could provide snacks, food, BBQ, etc, Find a way to package the bus tour and have it be ran by someone else. Sorta franchise it if you will. so any tom or joe could signup run his Tour charge his rates, offer what snacks they wanted to. and they just have to pay the rally organizer X per bus or X per spectator.

Going off of what i've heard in some interviews, spectators will actually be more interested if they have to buy a ticket. and if they can buy a ticket for a bus ride to the location, food included, etc. might make a great package deal for them.

NoCoast Wrote:
> This is not meant to come off in a bad way, but
> rally is not a sport for those that lack the
> committment to do whatever it takes to do it.
> I've found filming to be a way to be involved and
> still have fun at a much lower expense.
> Volunteering, organizing, crewing, and codriving
> are all amazing ways to be involved without having
> to spend a ton. Stomp stomp, but I want to drive!
> Well, then, figure out a way to make it happen.

This is really the truth.
Rally is difficult to do, somewhat confusing to get into, and hard to be really good at. This is all part of the reason you want to jump on your hood and spray champagne after you finish your first event. I make sure to congratulate all the new drivers they finish when I'm at events. It's the: "Yeah - I was there. I was under the car at 2:00AM the morning trying to get 11 year old junkyard parts to come together before for my first event."

In other news:
Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?
- Kris

A1337STI Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not to thread jack too bad, BUT! I've also had
> an idea of trying to setup a tour bus that would
> take spectators out to the stages, from an easy to
> find location back in town. said tour bus could
> provide snacks, food, BBQ, etc, Find a way to
> package the bus tour and have it be ran by someone
> else. Sorta franchise it if you will. so any
> tom or joe could signup run his Tour charge his
> rates, offer what snacks they wanted to. and they
> just have to pay the rally organizer X per bus or
> X per spectator.

It works. I took spectator shuttle buses in MFPR, I've paid a few pesos and went to a bunch of spots at WRC Mexico. Food and beer for a few bucks more when I got there.

Do I have the capacity as an organizer for this endeavor? Nope.
(I'm sure Anders will agree with me)

So - who watching this thread is going to get with me offline and coordinate a bus / shuttle / van service that will drive to the stages of HDT 2011? Ticket sales, etc. Who is going to organize the TSD and route with me to the spectator areas?
Please see me after class. rally [at} highdeserttrails -Dot- com

- Kris



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2010 03:55PM by webkris.

We were talking last year about how the absolute best VIP service would be to come with us out onto the stages. We did four stage per day per team at Ojibwe last year and every single stage at Idaho (though that was easy).
Shuttle buses are expensive though. We'd discussed a shuttle company that would bounce skiers and snowboarders from Central City/Blackhawk (our casino area in mountains) to the Summit County ski resorts. The bus is expensive, the maintenenance is much more so.

---

Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why would you lose your shit? It's flatbrim who
> loses his shit if someone wrecks. Hope there
> isn't a fatality either cause flatbrim could find
> himself in prison for manslaughter for organizing
> such a thing.

I was speaking more to the wrath of the rally community when they learn of a thread on a Subaru forum where members are sharing videos, stories, and pictures of off-tarmac shenanigans as being "rally." Someone will die, event horizon for rally, and so on.

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why does rally have to be so hard? You know what
> it took to build my car? Well, first I went and
> got a second job and poured all of that extra
> income into the car. I lived off Peanut Butter
> sandwiches. I lived in the most ghetto house I
> could stand, then with as many as three roommates.
> I don't have a daily driver car either cause I
> hate car payments and insurance payments.
> Eventually I went to grad school after I did the
> math and realized the added earnings that would
> bring me in my lifetime. I don't own a
> television, I don't spend $100 a month on cable TV
> or $25 per month on Netflix. I do not have high
> speed internet. I actually hate that I have to
> pay monthly for my cell phone bill. My one pair
> of shoes I wear until they have holes in the
> bottom. Can't tell you when the last time was I
> went to a mall or Target type place.

You illustrate my point perfectly, Grant. If THAT is what it takes for someone who isn't making six figures to make the jump from rallyx to stage rally in this country, then there is something SERIOUSLY wrong. If I recall, you did all the work yourself too.

Rally - at the regional, clubman level - should not require a trust fund or moving in with Tyler fucking Durden. All I'm saying.

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is not meant to come off in a bad way, but
> rally is not a sport for those that lack the
> committment to do whatever it takes to do it.
> I've found filming to be a way to be involved and
> still have fun at a much lower expense.
> Volunteering, organizing, crewing, and codriving
> are all amazing ways to be involved without having
> to spend a ton. Stomp stomp, but I want to drive!
> Well, then, figure out a way to make it happen.
> There's some serious money to be made in Canada in
> the oil fields. Go work two weeks on, two weeks
> off and you can make $10-15K a month (did I
> mention half the month you're off.)

I don't take it the wrong way. This is Rally Anarchy. I know what's up.

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

DR1665 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You illustrate my point perfectly, Grant. If THAT
> is what it takes for someone who isn't making six
> figures to make the jump from rallyx to stage
> rally in this country, then there is something
> SERIOUSLY wrong. If I recall, you did all the work
> yourself too.
>
> Rally - at the regional, clubman level - should
> not require a trust fund or moving in with Tyler
> fucking Durden. All I'm saying.

I agree and it doesn't have to. I've spent way more money than any clubman should. You could get out on stage in a multitude of cars that can be competitive in their class for under $10K. In fact, you can do it for under $5K.

Every clubman rallyists should be doing all or most of their work. If you can't weld, start hanging out with someone who can and learn. Everything else is pretty simple. I have yet to spend more than $200 on a paint job.

I also had an overwhelming amount of old debt burdening me that required me to have to live at that level. Now that I'm just at student loan and tax debt left thanks to bankruptcy I actually have the money to consider things that will further increase my ability to rally. Have a few business ideas and have considered continuing my education even further while branching out into more rally stuff, including things like maybe building turn key rally cars for under $10K.

---

Grant Hughes