This is not meant to be a rant...don't take it as anything more than an opinion.

Pointing out that Zimmer tows with a Sube is one thing, stating that everyone else should do the same is perhaps foolhardy at best.

I towed my Chevelle stock car to the local track on nite(about 20miles) on a single axle trailer with my B2000 1984 Mazda pickup and 2 crew guys. It was a 4 lane road so my doing 40mph up hills was only an aggravation for people passing. The rear bumper was pretty low and the whole thing swayed at 50mph. State trooper pulled me over in disbelief. I explained it was a one time deal as my F150 had tossed a timing chain that morning. He implied gently I was perhaps a bit of an idoit ( I didn't argue that point) and he pointed out I was running on dealer plates. I told him I had a dealers license. He said the plates were to be used for vehicles for sale not personal use. I told him the F'ing little Mazda was for sale...he let me go woth the advisory not to be seen again with this lashup. We left the car at the track that week...

The tow rating for a 2010 Silverado with a 315 hp 5.3 V8 and 3.08 diff is 6500 lbs or so. A 2005 Outback had a tow rating of 3000 lbs. Since most rally cars are at 3000 nekked there isn't any room left for trailer or spares. If you add a couple passengers and some equipment the car will be so far over GVWR it isn't funny.

Towing responsibly requires being able to stop safely, maintain stability on corners and 60 mph straights, when being passed by a semi or cross winds. You also need to not unduly impede following traffic because you haven't the power to maintain speed in a reasonable fashion. Since most rallies are remotely located there are plenty of twisty two lane roads that are traveled. I wonder how many people are killed annually trying to pass someone poke-assing in a trailer on a two lane road?

Towing legally, safely and responsibly has nothing to do with one-up-manship. Common sense must prevail.

On the other hand we like to sit at the boat launch in our marina and get our afternoon laughs. Amoung them is the guy who pulls up with a 16ft Lund aluminum fishing boat pulled by a crew cab SuperDuty diesel4x4. You know he told the wifey they just had to have that truck to pull the boat with.

Buy JVLs Suburban, load it up with parts to transport back east and make money!!!

Surge brakes are the devil himself, especially in winter. I can't believe they are still allowed up here.

I've had several ass clenching moments towing with inadequate setups, cars on single axle trailers, underpowered, underweight tow vehicles, surge brakes, undersized brakes with severely warped rotors, etc. A couple of years ago I almost plowed into the back of a minivan on a major highway in the rain with one of the above setups... could have killed someone due to my cheapness. I looked over at my wife and said "please dont't ever let me tow with a half ass setup again!"

Now I've got a nice 2004 crewcab superduty F350 diesel ($3800), and a trailer with electric brakes ($1800). Well worth the investment for me because I use the truck to haul plenty of other things around. The trailer, not so much, but I rented for 8 years and was royally sick of the pain in the ass it was to rent, not to mention most rentals car haulers around here have surge brakes...and you already know my opinion on those.

Unfortunately cheapness comes with the territory in clubman rally, it is a necessary evil for most of us at some point, it certainly was/still is for me.

Anders Green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is, of course, nearly no limit to this line
> of reasoning.

Of course. And you just paralleled the same reasoning that goes roughly "if we have more than one class, soon it will be like autocross!", but I think you'd agree that there's a point where a modicum of good sense says that it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

Vehicle weight, vehicle brakes, vehicle clutch, trailer brakes, trailer weight, tongue weight, hitch capabilities, hitch accessories, all come into play.

And you know this.

---

Self-righteous douche canoe

If rally was "like autocross", most of our problems would be minor. The autocrosses down here cost about $30, have a choice of three venues within 1.5 hours, and regularly meet their limits on entry, at about 120-130. Please make rally like autocross.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Anders Green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Please make rally like
> autocross.


And with minimum 27 classes, EVERYBODY can lie at work that they won!!!!

And be famous!!!
On YouTube!
>
> Anders
>
> Raleigh, NC
> Impreza H6 3.0

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Like I said, lots of winners, that's a minor problem.

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

The local autocross I'm chairing next weekend currently has 10 entrants in 8 classes...

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anders Green Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Please make rally like
> > autocross.
>
>
> And with minimum 27 classes, EVERYBODY can lie at
> work that they won!!!!
>
> And be famous!!!
> On YouTube!
> >
> > Anders
> >
> > Raleigh, NC
> > Impreza H6 3.0
>
>
>
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.rallyrace.net/jvab
> CALL +1 206 431-9696
> Remember! Pacific Standard Time
> is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.


That is becoming the norm for newcomers to rally on websites like FB etc...

---

rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

We towed an Impreza all over New England with a 92 Chevy half ton long bed with the V6. Did well, 15mpg, no issues. Long wheelbase is an asset. Had limited enclosed storage space and needed brake lines replaced twice and fuel lines once due to the brine being used here in winter. Fuel and brake line rusting is an ongoing problem in Maine whether the vehicle started here or not. Someone in PA was using a minivan to tow. Plentiful, cheap and roomy once you scrape out the old cheerios and fruit loops. May need tranny cooler and helper springs and electric brakes for the trailer are a given. Baby on board sticker is optional.
JT

turoc Wrote:
> That is becoming the norm for newcomers to rally on websites like FB etc...

What part of it is?

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

I'm so happy my wife doesn't read this. I used that EXACT logic to buy my diesel van!! (Works bitchin incidentally)

Anders Green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> turoc Wrote:
> > That is becoming the norm for newcomers to
> rally on websites like FB etc...
>
> What part of it is?
>


What's FB?

More fawkin assumptions that cryptic acronyms are understood by all.....
>
> Raleigh, NC
> Impreza H6 3.0

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anders Green Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > turoc Wrote:
> > > That is becoming the norm for newcomers
> to
> > rally on websites like FB etc...
> >
> > What part of it is?
> >
>
>
> What's FB?
>

FB = Facebook (www.facebook.com)

Welcome to 2008!
> More fawkin assumptions that cryptic acronyms are
> understood by all.....
> >
> > Raleigh, NC
> > Impreza H6 3.0
>
>
>
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.rallyrace.net/jvab
> CALL +1 206 431-9696
> Remember! Pacific Standard Time
> is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Although I'm sure rallyanarchy.com is probably WELL up the list... but facebook.com eclipsed google.com this year to become the most visited web site on the planet.

Soooo, if you didn't know that John.... good for you! More time in the garage and less time d*cking around with the internet!

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

TTIWWOP (this thread is worthless without pictures) of the Suburban, John! Although I think Mike is looking lower budget than that...



I get evil thoughts of using my dwindling savings hauling junk east (so it can sit under a tarp for decade and be traded for beer).

I should REALLY be working on the suspension on my black XR4...need to replace the last of the old bushings to try to alleviate some saggy butt in the tail and some highway vibes in the front and back.

Or I could call about this...

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/1694023168.html

---

Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY