Rally Clubs

Anders Green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DR1665 Wrote:
> > Should organizers make a profit? Hmmm...
> > Evil plans... they go here.
>
> A guy runs a club and makes enough money from it
> to afford to not have a separate job and in doing
> so puts on a whole bunch of events that the
> members come out and enjoy. That sounds like
> win-win.
>
> Anders
>
> Raleigh, NC
> Impreza H6 3.0

Did you notice the HUGE FAWKING trailers he pulls out to these events to boot?

Gangster. Just goes to show what's possible when member's concerns come above profiteering and energy drinks.

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

DR1665 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anders Green Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > DR1665 Wrote:
> > > Should organizers make a profit?
> Hmmm...
> > > Evil plans... they go here.
> >
> > A guy runs a club and makes enough money from
> it
> > to afford to not have a separate job and in
> doing
> > so puts on a whole bunch of events that the
> > members come out and enjoy. That sounds like
> > win-win.
> >
> > Anders
> >
> > Raleigh, NC
> > Impreza H6 3.0
>
> Did you notice the HUGE FAWKING trailers he pulls
> out to these events to boot?
>
> Gangster. Just goes to show what's possible when
> member's concerns come above profiteering and
> energy drinks.
>
>
>
> Brian DR1665 | Phoenix, AZ
> 92 GVR4 - daily | 91 GVR4 - endless rally project

i think it also helps to have all of your clubs members in such a small area. imagine what we could do if ALL the rallyists in the USA moved to wisconsin/minnesota.

Greg Donovan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DR1665 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anders Green Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > DR1665 Wrote:
> > > > Should organizers make a profit?
> > Hmmm...
> > > > Evil plans... they go here.
> > >
> > > A guy runs a club and makes enough money
> from
> > it
> > > to afford to not have a separate job and
> in
> > doing
> > > so puts on a whole bunch of events that
> the
> > > members come out and enjoy. That sounds
> like
> > > win-win.
> > >
> > > Anders
> > >
> > > Raleigh, NC
> > > Impreza H6 3.0
> >
> > Did you notice the HUGE FAWKING trailers he
> pulls
> > out to these events to boot?
> >
> > Gangster. Just goes to show what's possible
> when
> > member's concerns come above profiteering
> and
> > energy drinks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Brian DR1665 | Phoenix, AZ
> > 92 GVR4 - daily | 91 GVR4 - endless rally
> project
>
> i think it also helps to have all of your clubs
> members in such a small area. imagine what we
> could do if ALL the rallyists in the USA moved to
> wisconsin/minnesota.
>
>

Or Seattle..... critical mass might be easier to reach and sustain with 150-250 cars....
This is something I don't understand.
Somehow when I wanted high class hard racing I mustered the resources to move on my own to Sweden when I was a mere slip of a 17 year old...

But it seems people don't want to move for their sport here.


>

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

It's just not big enough or cheap enough here.
If rally was like skiing or snowboarding(people relocate for those sports all the time) with cheap races every weekend and a abundance of them. There would be clubs galore. Buuut that will never happen... it's just too spendy.

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Brap Brap.

I Would absolutely LOVE it if this could be done in my neck of the woods (Wisconsin).

As far as any stage rallies on public roads, the following statute was enacted, I think in the late 60's or early 70's, but I'm not sure:

346.94(2)
(2) Racing. No operator of a motor vehicle shall participate in any race or speed or endurance contest upon any highway.

Which is kinda lame, and uber-restrictive. So no stage rallies using any highway as part of them can happen. Also probably why hillclimb and TSD rallies seem to be nonexistent anymore. Although, you could maybe word things so a TSD would not be a race, or a contest of speed or endurance, but I don't know how.

Maybe the term 'highway' is the key. Except I remember sometime back in the 80's they changed terminology a bit so instead of 'county road', they were 'county trunk highways'. We had to change the mailing addresses on envelopes from 'Cty. M' to 'CTH M'. But, if all of the stages could be put on roads that were NOT highways, that might work. But then you've got to get the residents of that area to be involved, or to at LEAST not get pissed and shut the whole thing down.

However, the private-land idea, if it could be used to make a couple short stages that could change each event, would be awesome, and I'd totally get in on it. We've tried getting some RallyX action going on, with the FVSCC club, and the MSCC club (Madison, a bit south), and the madison events were held in some farm fields.

We had two, the first one with about 30 entrants, the second one with 8 (poor publicity, and a conflicting event somewhere), and then the guy's insurance agent was found to be with no balls, and even though we carry our OWN insurance policy, he threatened to drop the farmer's policy if he had any more events on his land. The FVSCC rallyX was going to be in Oshkosh, at an expo center, where they have dirt-track racing all the time, but the one last month got cancelled because apparently we would've torn up the ground too much.

I think that once we can get some good, solid, REPEATABLE rallyX going, that would whet the appetite, and a specific rally club could form, but it's going to take time and effort and not just a little luck.

--sarge

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---** To be in compliance with the Anarchy **---
Jorden R. Kleier
Baraboo, Wisconsin, USA
1990 Mazdog Protege 4WD
1973

Don't worry about that law. There's no racing allowed on any of the roads that rallies use anywhere. Once appropriate permissions are given, it's legal.

Now, getting the permissions can be tough.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

There are TSDs in WI. I've done a couple. The Wisconsin Winter Rally that was a part of the Arrowhead SCC's Winter Rally series for 2008-2009 was probably the most fun TSD I've ever done. One leg was held on a national forest road that was built by a WI Rallyist and aptly named Jake Himes Driveway.

Parps has been putting on rallycrosses at gravity park for the last few years. The first WI rallyx I went to was back in 2002 in Stevens Point. And there were a couple of rallyxs in Arkansaw, WI in 03 and 04 as well. I think they even did a scca rally sprint on the arkansaw site before that. And then in the winter you've got all the ice trials on lake hustisford and a couple up on dollar lake in eagle river, those are just fast (3rd gear even, wowsers!) rallycrosses on ice. Its a lot of fun even without studs.

The next gravity park rallyx is Sept 19. http://www.w-a-g.org/events/rallycross/2010/info.htm

And dont forget the Nemadji Trails 3 rallies in 2.5 weeks! http://www.snowstates.com/events/nemadji.htm
Its not in WI, but close enough and with a lot of WI people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2010 01:10PM by Carl S.

Yep, I've been to several of Parps' rallyXes and ice trials, even got a discount on my entry once because I let him use my van as the timing vehicle. Granted, it went through more than half of a 33 gallon tank because they kept it running the whole time for heat, so the discount really didn't make up for the gas, but it's all good.

I was at a couple of the ice trials at Hustisford, but the last couple of years I've been going to the FVSCC ones on Lake Winnebago. I can crash at by brother's house on saturday night, and only drive 10 minutes to the lake. Instead of having to leave at 5:30 a.m., I can wake up at 7, drive to the lake, change tires, and STILL have extra time. Plus I do a lot with the FVSCC anyways. Here's an


in-car lap at one last winter. I'd been running just rubber, and finally built some bolted tires, but in that vid only the fronts had been sharpened.


I was completely unaware of the Arrowhead SCC's series. that looks to be VERY interesting, I'm going to see if I can make that this year.

I've got another friend who just bought 60 acres not too long ago, in some pretty good country, and I'll have to talk to him again (I mentioned it in passing, just to start the seed) about setting up a short stage for some rallyX action.


--sarge

---

---** To be in compliance with the Anarchy **---
Jorden R. Kleier
Baraboo, Wisconsin, USA
1990 Mazdog Protege 4WD
1973

I like the topic - read through all the comments - one thing I've not seen as a differentiator between over-the-pond clubs and USA clubs (or the potential for building clubs here) is the cultural difference.

Over the pond, people gather socially in a different way than here. There's a lot more community and I think a lot of that stems from proximity.

guys will hang out at their local bar, not to get shit faced as a primary activity, but to commune with the like minded; Soccer, Rugby, Cycling, Rally - what have you

The US doesn't have that - we don't have the village with the local pub where folks get introduced to each other - closest thing we have is what? the forums?

The other thing the USA is famous for is that we work our ever living tails off to support our lifestyle with an average of 2 weeks off per year (ludicrous!) - and I'm not a socialist pinko commie neither - quite the other way...But I've learned that we do need to learn to enjoy living, hanging out and enjoying the company of the like minded.

Further, the average American will move/relocate a lot more often than the average Euro/Slav/etc..and when they do, its also a farther distance from where they had roots. This makes friendships with less history and more transient - again, dilutes that sense of community.

As far as moving to where the 'action' is - I think Rallying is exciting enough to build on where ever you live - there's plenty of people where you are.

The problem is to create an environment that people consider a better place to spend their time than the other 100 things on their plate...at the end of the day, a few people have to start doing it driven by pure passion, that's infective and will bring others - but the absence of community and the habits it creates is real

That, sir, was insightful. In a word: awesome.

How do we channel the efforts used to participate online into more personal, local activities? Seems like the desire is there, if not the time. How can we shift our culture? What needs to be done?

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

i am having my first rally club get together in about a month. first meeting is going to be at a park here in town. mainly just a get together to meet peopl face to face and decide what we want the club to be.

one thing i want to discuss is finding a venue to rallycross and play around with cars in the dirt.

the next activity will be to get people together to go to the Ojibwe Forests Rally Weekend coming up the end of august.

vbares Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like the topic - read through all the comments -
> one thing I've not seen as a differentiator
> between over-the-pond clubs and USA clubs (or the
> potential for building clubs here) is the cultural
> difference.

At least in Denmark, this is particularly true. We have a loooong tradition for organizing just about everything in clubs/groups. Very formal - we consider it a must to have rules etc. for the group. We're not required to by law, but we're just used to that that is the way we do it. Rules for group saying how the board is elected, how often does it meet, etc. etc. Kinda weird, and from what I know; unique as well.

However... I do feel that Americans are pretty good at volunteer stuff, supporting the local high school football team, church, etc., so I don't see that as a big handicap for you as such. I guess your just not in the habit of organizing motorsports clubs :-).

> guys will hang out at their local bar, not to get
> shit faced as a primary activity, but to commune
> with the like minded; Soccer, Rugby, Cycling,
> Rally - what have you

Actually - going to a bar to do that sorta thing isn't very common in Denmark. Meeting at the motor club and having a beer is just sorta the bar though :-).
But I think you're right about the proximity thing. I've been to The States a handfull of times - and boy is that a big country OR WHAT :-). Back here I can't go anywhere without having a house in vicinity :-).

> The other thing the USA is famous for is that we
> work our ever living tails off to support our
> lifestyle with an average of 2 weeks off per year
> (ludicrous!) - and I'm not a socialist pinko
> commie neither - quite the other way...But I've
> learned that we do need to learn to enjoy living,
> hanging out and enjoying the company of the like
> minded.

Haha - we have between 5 and 7 weeks depending... :-).
Actually my wifes company just got bought by American investors. They nearly had a heart attack when they heard that 3 weeks off in one row in the summer is the norm... and the LAW :-).
Guess they didn't do their homework good enough :-).

> Further, the average American will move/relocate a
> lot more often than the average Euro/Slav/etc..and
> when they do, its also a farther distance from
> where they had roots. This makes friendships with
> less history and more transient - again, dilutes
> that sense of community.

That - I think - is also one of your strengths in some aspects - and deeply rooted in your culture. It was how the country was built... but you're right - it does dilute.
On the other hand - when somebody mentioned moving because of rallying, my first thought was: yes... that'll make perfect sense to an American. Not everyone will do it obviously, but I wasn't surprised that it was discussed as a viable option.
Over here: that would almost NEVER happen. Nobody moves for their HOBBY over here. For a job and carreer (including athletes): sure...

---

Brgrds
Brian





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2010 04:07PM by wildert.

5-7 weeks of vacation per year. That's brilliant. Wow.

You'd think, with our "puritan work ethic" over here, we'd be naturals at putting in the time to build local clubs. Not so. Maybe we're all over-worked?

I, for one, would love to organize a local rally club, but right now, I've got my hands tied with Gearbox. It's almost like I'm trying to build one, global rally club or something. Because I see how it could be in the future, I'm sticking with it, but man, I'd sure like to be able to get together once a month with rallyistas and talk a little shop.

When it's 116*F and humid as hell, you need all the motivation you can get to go out to the garage and do anything.

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

DR1665 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 5-7 weeks of vacation per year. That's brilliant.
> Wow.

Yeah it is... we're spoiled... and I mean that... but that's a different story.
Just to top it off, I can mention that normally you're not required (nor expected) to work more than 37-40 hours a week.
Since it's such a small country almost everyone lives close to work, and generally people feel that commuting more than 2-2½ hours pr. day is the limit. Some are even as low as below 1 hour (jup, that's less than 30 minutes each way...).

... it does leave quite a bit of spare time compared to how you organize it... (though with the size of USA, it's kinda hard to cut down on commuting).

> You'd think, with our "puritan work ethic" over
> here, we'd be naturals at putting in the time to
> build local clubs. Not so. Maybe we're all
> over-worked?

To an extend - and please don't take this the wrong way - I think that your culture is a bit more egotistical. You guys are used to "The American Dream" and all that. Where each one works on his own for his dreams and goals, etc.
That doesn't really add to the whole club idea either, cause your way of doing it, is doing it on you own, and then surfacing and showing the world that you can do it.

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Brgrds
Brian

On commuting...
- There are still areas in the States where the commute is less than 1hr round trip. Some are even fortunate enough to telecommute (in which I *strongly* believe). Those individuals - such as the one lady on my project team who telecommutes from Salt Lake City, Utah - have no commutes at all!

On the American Dream...
- I think you're 100% correct about the egotism. The American Dream used to stand for working hard to live a better life. Today, seems more about getting everything you want with the least amount of effort.

Shame we have to spend so much time working to make up for sloth and irresponsibility. :shrug (I'm a bit more old-wordly.)

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest