Wild West news

phlat65 Wrote:
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> most $40 Enduros I have run here in Washington are
> 70-100 miles of single track trail, with no
> re-peats. 7-8 hours of seat time. Hare Scrambles
> are 6-10 mile loop trails for 3 hours.
>
> The Idaho City 2 day ISDE qualifier that I have
> done twice is $200, 130 or so miles each day,
> Rally style with transits and special tests, Park
> Ferme ater day 1 with a 20 minute service, and 10
> minute service before the start each day.


Agreed, and of course we used to bitch about FORTY DOLLAR LATE ENTRY!!!!!!.

Where's the Python clip for Life of Brian about "you have to haggle!!"
FORTY DOLLARS!!!

And the ISDE qualifier that I did twice was 182 miles in one day PLUS final moto-cross Special Test of 10 miles.
No repeats, spread across the Trask Mountains---where Oregon Trails used to be--only the tests were out on skinny ass trails so crews had to GET THERE and then with 400 entries wait hours (3 bikes started per minute).

Rememeber, every bit of event set up is down the same trails we're riding and that could and is, often difficult, challenging trails for "functionaires" --what do we call all the event workers in English?---that the Route guys chose for their difficult nature.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Anders Green Wrote:
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> Kris and Sean: the pricing structure has little to
> do with anything about "fairness" or road damage.
> It's more like this: at $$$, you'll get no bikes,
> whether it's fair or not. At $$, you'll get some
> bikes. If you can grow that to 15-20 bikes then
> you'll be helping the bottom line of the rally.
>
> You also shouldn't imagine that "oh, bikes showed
> up, car entry fees should be lower". It's more
> like "Oh, bikes showed up, good, maybe the person
> organizing the rally won't lose money now."
>
> Chris: it's true, most bike events are cheaper.
> But we all know that they also provide much less.
> Rallies are half a dozen ambulances plus maybe
> some cops, 1000 square miles of terrain, your own
> private race track, 100-150 volunteers, and awards
> party with free food. It seems like the $40
> enduros I've seen are 1 square mile, 10
> volunteers, an EMT, and sharing the track with 200
> other people. Which is good fun, I'm not knocking
> it, it's just not the same thing.
>
> Cheers,
> Anders
>
> Raleigh, NC
> Impreza H6 3.0


The food isn't always free anymore at some of the events. The first time I volunteered and found out the food wasn't free at the end of the event (mt hood, when before it always had been), I had two starving teenagers with me (not mine, they were kind enough to come along and help and I provided car space) and I ended up paying to feed them. The next year I had warning and we skipped the awards and hit mcdonalds on the way home. Doo Wops this year (I think that's the one) had a $5 fee (this one was for a good cause) but since I didn't know about it ahead of time, I didn't have any cash to take three of us in, so we stopped somewhere on the way home and used my credit card.

Citing the costs of different events and imagining they have much bearing on rally prices is the height of non-productivity. To accomplish something useful and magnificent, put on a 70-100 mile rally with 7-8 hours of road time and charge $40 and prove all the other thrifty organizers wrong. I'd love to see that happen because it would be great for the participation in the sport.

Cheers,
Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Anders Green Wrote:
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> It's more
> like "Oh, bikes showed up, good, maybe the person
> organizing the rally won't lose Stupid amounts of money now."
>
> > Cheers,
> Anders
>
> Raleigh, NC
> Impreza H6 3.0

Fixed

There was a national BMW owners motorcycle event in Redmond last weekend. Lots of GS's on 242.

I hope my comments are not taken wrong, there is no comparison to the amount of organization it takes to put on each, plus, Idaho ISDE reaches their 200 rider cap pretty easily. 200*$200= $40,000. 30 cars at Idaho Rally, $850*30=25,500. They don't need an ambulance at every test, or sherrifs to block roads or, or, or....

Our local Enduros get 50-75 entries. The Desert 100 weekend in eastern Washington gets 2000 entries on the weekend. The club that does that event makes quite a surplus, they rent tracks for the club, have a large chunk of land for the club, send riders to events ect.

I though the entry to Idaho was a bit steep, but I would pay it again.

Gene - Skip the roll charts, we don't look at them anyway!

Andrew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2010 08:31PM by urr.

urr Wrote:
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> Gene - Skip the roll charts, we don't look at them
> anyway!
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Jul 21, 2010 by urr.

I thought you used them on the trasnsits. Would it be better just to put the transit pages together and give you that?
Or just a map?

MORE NEWS ::::::

Due to popular demand (someone on here I believe) has mentioned in the past a desire to have a night stage...so...I believe on Saturday nite the last 2 stages will be run in the dark.

Is that ok for the bikes??

Everyone should always get the whole route. That way when re-routes come up, or other instructions, you know what's going on. Putting the stages in your backpack is fine, but everyone needs the whole thing. Any other method (maps or whatever) means you now lose the "international language" of a route book (in addition to adding a second "language", one for bikes and one for cars), and day-of changes become a huge mess.

Call me if you want examples of the problems that have come up.

Night stages for bikes is fine, but there are additional tech requirements for reflectivity.

Cheers,
Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

That makes sense, I hadn't given it any thought before answering Andrews post.


I'll call this morning though, I always like stories and examples.

This news makes Wild West a must do for me now....

Imagine if you had handed out maps with transits and stages highlighted... then you needed a re-route. "OK, just write up a bulletin for the stage finish that says after the second medium squiggle (not the first two sharp squiggles) take the road that looks like it's just a part of the word "Little" but it's really a road and go till you get to where the dashed line crosses and there's a bend to the right like a question mark. Take that chicken-foot looking intersection going to the right, but up a little, near where the triangle is for that peak."

*hilarity ensues*

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

I'd just like to add that after Doo-Wops when ever it was that there was bikes and gene graciously asked me to be bike tech guy, I made a point to call and drop by 2-3 of the 6-7 guys that started and have a good hour long chat with each, a post event de-briefing.
As bike guys tend to do, they were very positive and happy with everything despite the snow, and ice.
BUT.
It's an immutable fact that they are used to far far lower entries fees.
They know its a numbers deal, and that the problem is the eternal fixed costs divided by total numbers of entries and until that improves, we're gonna be stuck with high entry fees, and/or low participation.

They said more miles and then maybe 200 would be not fine, but OK.

So as always the question is: how to get more total dollars in so the individual bite if spread broader and so, theoretically, less per head..

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

heymagic Wrote:
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> urr Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gene - Skip the roll charts, we don't look at
> them
> > anyway!
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> >
> > Edited 1 times. Last edit at Jul 21, 2010 by
> urr.
>
> I thought you used them on the trasnsits. Would it
> be better just to put the transit pages together
> and give you that?
> Or just a map?
>

I broke my roll chart holder off at my very first RM event in 2008, Mt Hood, and haven't used one since.

I usually scan through the transit directions in the route book prior to the event and figure it out, then go by memory. Most events these days offer recce too, so you drive the transits before the race anyway.

A map and transit directions are all I would ever need but I'm not sure about others.