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NoCoast
My car remained driveable the entire time the cage was going in. We're privateers.

well alright!

Mind hitting me with some details of your build? Type of car, Cost of cage, etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2010 11:34AM by BobOfTheFuture.

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Dazed_Driver
Now I'm going to be flamed by Grant, John, and possibly someone else because its front wheel drive and will be hard to find a close ratio gear box for (which practically no one has, anyway).

That would suggest that I haven't told people that Ben's car is out there and a great starting point.

Yeah, I think RWD is more fun, more sustainable, cheaper to build right, and more fun. But FWD has it's place and is more natural for some people.

I think Sean said he's spent around $8-10K building his Merkur and it's got plenty of power and easy upgrade paths.

Me too. drove it to the cage builder, drove it home 2 weeks later. went drifting 2 weeks after that.

If you are purchasing a rally car for under 10K, what you are purchasing usually is somebody else's problem. There are very few well prepped 2wd cars for less than that.

You need to weigh getting on the stages versus having a car you built and are comfortable with.

If you have got a running bud, even better, because you are going to spending a lot of time thrashing in the garage regardless of what route you go.

Volvo (gasp, I said it) gives you a tank right out of the starting gate. I like BMWs, but getting them to rally spec is more problematic, and probably not for somebody wet behind the ears. I think you could get an E36 318ti ready, run it, and then upgrade suspension and engine. FWD you need to go with a VW Golf, second or third generation (aka 1985-1991; 1992-1998). Stuff for those is probably the easiest to get for a proven platform in US rallying.

May I suggest that a combo plan where you start your prep and get seat time sitting in the right seat would be a good idea. Since you have to drop that cool $1500 minimum on helmet, suit and HANS, you might as well purchase that first.

W

Yeah, stripping it down to the shell is for nerds, plus if you make it that nice, you'll be too nervous to really drive hard. In rough terms a budget might be

2K for a cage.
1K for seats and belts.
2-4K for suspension
another K for tires, lights, a computer, skidplates, and barfbags


I had plenty of fun with stock driveline and brakes, and a welded diff.


go for the RX7, they are tons of funs.

Wow. Sounds good... fun too.
I have a hard time thinking about volvo's there is so few non-GM era ones here. I like the RXs in general, there is a nice one here, a pristine one in Indiana. I havent looked at any 3 series in a while...

I had thought about the co-driving thing, but I was worried about being so new to it and having that responsibility.

I already have alot of the personal safety equipment from other events...

Thanks for the supremely helpful discussion everyone. Keep it going if you have more to add!

At the end of the day it really does not matter if you start with a built car or build one, nor if you start in RWD, FWD or AWD.

Rally cars are easy to buy and hard to sell. I would look more to your long term plans as to how you should start. If you really want to challenge for overall wins etc at some point I would start in AWD as selling a 2wd car to move into AWD will be difficult and likely a money losing step.

If you want to have lots of fun for slightly less money I would look at Gp2 cars and some Gp5 cars.

Rally is about much more then the equipment you are sitting in. It is an activity that requires forethought, commitment, directed growth, and personal abilities.

I bought 3 rally cars and built one, I drove my first rally in a RWD car my next several in an AWD car and my last several in a FWD car. I was fastest in the FWD car, much faster then I ever was in the turbo AWD open class car because I kept getting better.

The car I built was by far the best of my cars but I could not have built it so well with out the experience of owning the prior 3 cars. As a kid I also helped my dad build one and rebuild one he bought. So by the time I built my first car I had 5 rally cars in my past.

I like to think there are two parts to building a rally car. 1) There are the bits you can buy and bolt on or sub out with very little thought. It is easy to pay to get a roll cage into a car, it is also easy to buy parts designed for your car model such as a set of Proflex shocks. They basically bolt right in. 2) There are the bits you need to design or conceive of on your own. This includes bits where the bolt on fix is very expensive such as a VW Motorsports Gearbox or does not exist such as proven low cost VW drive shafts.

Subaru's are popular as one can by a street car and bolt all the bits on to have a solid PGT/ Super Production Car in about 30 days. Getting a Volvo 240 together will take more time and effort to get ready but should cost less and will likely be more fun to drive then a less then full on AWD car.

So no real "you should do X" statements more a few things to ponder.

Enjoy.

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NoCoast
My car remained driveable the entire time the cage was going in. We're privateers.

Perhaps, but you're also comfortable driving a beat-ass lawnmower with a lawn chair and umbrella around the Indian sub-continent, so I bet you rallyx'd that thing with a milk crate for a seat and a KFC bucket for a helmet.

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

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derek
At the end of the day it really does not matter if you start with a built car or build one, nor if you start in RWD, FWD or AWD.

Rally cars are easy to buy and hard to sell. I would look more to your long term plans as to how you should start.

That is the best advice I have heard yet in the old build vs buy arguement.

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mothra

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derek
At the end of the day it really does not matter if you start with a built car or build one, nor if you start in RWD, FWD or AWD.

Rally cars are easy to buy and hard to sell. I would look more to your long term plans as to how you should start.

That is the best advice I have heard yet in the old build vs buy arguement.

It is strongly implied in my cautioning people about buying some dead POS junk project that somebody may have gotten fed up with...
I have said so many times i get sloppy but I usually say "WHY!!? are they selling--(with the known huge loss that always entails)?

It is also implied when i say to guys "Choose well, cause you're going to me married to that car for a lot longer than you think"---unless you can just laugh off the money and labor loss.

Understood. Good points all around. My intent was to have some fun locally, but the draw to start with a AWD is pretty strong anyhow.

I bought my first rally vehicle (a rally truck) for $3400 and it was indestructible with a load of spares (that I didn't use, because it was indestructible). Rallied it for three or four years.

I bought it and was rallying in less than 24 hours.

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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BobOfTheFuture
Understood. Good points all around. My intent was to have some fun locally, but the draw to start with a AWD is pretty strong anyhow.

Seriously, I have only rallied a very good, very light, very powerful fwd car with a good close ratio box, nice short 5.45 ring and pinion, a good all steel clutch plate diff which i had even before my first stage rally, so it's OK for me, but I have watched the sport for a long time, here in USA, Canada just up the road, Sweden , UK and Finland...
What I have seen is those who stay in the sport are those who can have the most fun for the dollar spent, and in the end that means the ability to find decent stuff for cheap that works effectively even as the "perv twitch" starts influencing things.

In clear talk that means lessay you start out 'just gonna have a widdle fun" so alternate boxes and axles and diffs and a STRONG motor aren't high on the "gotta do IT!" list..

But say you chose something basically "Good" and low and behold you drive OK and have OK results (cause you didn't go fuckin nuts and crash your brains out).

Next event you can "go for it" more cause you and your 'kau-drajver" are working better-er and you do a good bit better. And you make some better results it it was just WAY fun-ner and you start to get hooked and go that little bit insane and start developing a tick like the poor Chief Inspector Dreyfus here:




You want a good amount of "room to grow" in the vehicle you just spent so much for the cage and suspension and wheels and junk-n-stuff as you deteriorate and become a rally-perv.


So there's a coupla "maxims' i suggest you get a punch set and have a friend hammer into your forehead:

What is the advantage of ___________________ vs _________that?
Is _______________________ going to guarantee that each corner, each straight bit , each moment is 5, 7, 10, 15 times more sheer fun than__________that?

John makes a great point. I am entered in my 4th rally next month, I built a strong reliable car, with Johns help of course and have been having a ton of fun. At our 3rd event, we started so set some decent times, and I saw that I can safely push harder and be competitive, and now I want to develop the car more. this is all in 9 months. Don't buy something that you can't grow into, or settle for something that you may not really want.

Grant was correct, I built my car for around $8,000, and like Grant said, I know my car could go for a win with the right driver.

That all sounds right to me, thanks for brining it up. That all said, in the end, are drive trains other then AWD really such dead ends? I was under the impression that things like MaxAttack gave 2WD drivers more of a light at the end of the tunnel.



On a related note, if anyone wouldnt mind a rook co-driver at the just-announced NY rally sprint, drop me a line