Im a newbee and need advice

whats the consensus on setting up and running an 83 toyota 4x4 long bed (8ft) in the rally series, Im very likely going to purchase this tomorrow hoping it will make a good racer (instead of my daily drvr 99 trd which everyone seems opposed to my converting in a race truck) thanks

ha I was thinking about celicas - and then, remember the vw corrados 90-94 factory supercharged that would make an awsome rally car...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2010 05:39PM by Littlelina.

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Littlelina
whats the consensus on setting up and running an 83 toyota 4x4 long bed (8ft) in the rally series, Im very likely going to purchase this tomorrow hoping it will make a good racer (instead of my daily drvr 99 trd which everyone seems opposed to my converting in a race truck) thanks

Well obviously the way a truck is built on two long steel rails with the body plopped on, with recirculating ball steering with 5 or 6 turns, with nearly zero weight over the drive wheels, with no room in the cab for a decent rollcage, and vile ride and handling has been the most successful way to build rally cars the world over for 4-5 decades.

All the talk of decent weight balance, and quick accurate steering and strong bodyshells with carefully intergrated cages, room enough to move your arms and good handling and decent ride is just so much horse-pucky.

All the top rally cars are trucks, so why not?

I eman when was the last time you saw a car win a rally?

^^ be nice John, we need more girls in this sport

Normally I know what you mean by your cryptic writing, but even this time I'm trying to figure out if this is a good idea or not from you, haha. Although, an 8ft bed? seems a bit long.

I told her to come here, so play nice....at least until Merrilee shows up, then they can start playing dirty.

oh, i see you have a saab

guess im used to driving bigger cars and longer trucks they are fun to slide



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2010 04:33PM by Littlelina.

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Jon Burke
^^ be nice John, we need more girls in this sport

Normally I know what you mean by your cryptic writing, but even this time I'm trying to figure out if this is a good idea or not from you, haha. Although, an 8ft bed? seems a bit long.

I told her to come here, so play nice....at least until Merrilee shows up, then they can start playing dirty.

Who do I get to play dirty with?


I just got done codriving this last weekend in a truck. They aren't the fastest. There's no room inside them. Hell, I can't even drive the thing myself because my legs are too long and the seat has no where to move back any further. I know, I ran a sprints in it a few years ago. Using the clutch? hahahahahaha, no. So instead I sit silly seat.

BUT

TRUCKS ARE FUCKING COOL


TRUCKS ARE REALLY FUCKING COOL


so, I'd say if you are doing it for fun, and you don't care about winning, and you fit inside, etc etc etc, then run a truck because the spectators and fans really friggin love watching trucks do rally

I can't even tell you how many people came up to me at parc expose with a dumb grin on their face and were so happy to see someone in a truck. I could hear the people cheering anytime we went by out on stage. I know as a worker/volunteer what it sounds like when someone comes buy in a truck. If they hang the back end out at all, even a touch, they will get just as big (and bigger) cheers than the rally leaders (this includes block/pastrana/whoeverelse)


and I suppose if it's a long bed, that means extra room for more spare tires locked down in the back?

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Littlelina
oh, i see you have a saab

guess im used to driving bigger cars and longer trucks they are fun to slide

yes, yes they are

I was looking for a 70's datsun king cab, that way I could do historic and run a truck, but couldn't find one in my price range (could, but they were gone moments after being listed). I ended up with a 76 dodge colt instead, which is now patiently sitting under my car port.

You may know all this already, but for rally you will not be able to use an old truck in 4wd. 4wd is very different from all-wheel-drive. All wheel drive is needed if you are planning on turning at over 35 mph, which is what rallying is kind of all about. So it sounds like you want rear wheel drive. Good choice!


Maybe you are planning to take out all the 4wd stuff, which would be dead weight, and changing out the front sub frame for a 2wd one, so you can lower the suspension.

It seems like it would be easier to find a nice 2wd 4cylinder pickup. As far as long bed, you don't want it too long. Bring a tape measure and get one with a wheel base of between 102 and 106 inches. As far as what brand, toyotas seem pretty bombproof, but maybe some of the people who have actually done rally trucks could chime in.

And oh yeah, rallytrucks are great for getting started in rally for cheap and having fun, but if you check the records, I don't think any have been competitive. JV's saab is a genuine bad-ass rally car, in which he has competed in many rallies, including, gasp! WRC events, so don't get smart

But a truck is a bulletproof first vehicle and cheap to build.

A truck was on the radar when we started talking about RWD platforms and ended up with the Colts. You can get great suspension out of the box, race fiberglass, limited slip and other go fast parts, and don't need to throw a whole bunch into chassis strengthening. Toyota or Ford Ranger in my book.

It should be fine to get out in the woods and have some fun on the cheap.

So don't pay any attention to that old curmudgeon.

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Littlelina
oh, i see you have a saab

Bahahahaha!

That is classic!

I hereby decree that for the next four weeks, whenever someone talks to JVL on the phone, they must start with "Oh. I see you have a Saab."

Littlelina, I started rallying in a truck. Had loads of fun. If you want to do it, do it. "Winning" is not the priority the first year anyway.

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Well the other old curmudgeon will chime in and say " I can't think of a much worse way to start in rally". And I don't have a Saab...

For starters an '83 Toyota is carbed so you'll have to deal with that. No power to speak of. Weak single roller timing chain. Cylinder head suffers from aluminum worms. 4x4 has solid front axle, crappy steering, crappy suspension. 4x4 is not rally friendly like AWD is. Hard to cage, no storage, no room. In general they are old, wore out. over rated and under performing.

If you have to start with a truck then get a later model fuel injected 2wd with a xtra cab and short box.

In reality the best place for a truck in rally is taking the stripped out Volvo interior parts to the dump...

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Anders Green

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Littlelina
oh, i see you have a saab

Bahahahaha!

That is classic!

I hereby decree that for the next four weeks, whenever someone talks to JVL on the phone, they must start with "Oh. I see you have a Saab."

Littlelina, I started rallying in a truck. Had loads of fun. If you want to do it, do it. "Winning" is not the priority the first year anyway.

Anders

Yeah! Who cares about spending all the fixed costs on a cage and shocks and springs and then losing your shirt when the competitive bug sinks its fangs in and the the same reasons that led you to sell your truck, seeps into the brain..

Whats losing 60-70% or more of all the money pissed into a uncompetitive vehicle, this isn't real competition, it's US Rally.

You know what's funny?
Nobody can call here without noticing the obvious message: Ninty Six! Ninty Six!

Viva the 96!

(and note: I still have the same 96 I built in 1985, and i still LIKE IT because i know there's nothing holding me back in that basic car, its just my own shitty driving that prevents it from over all wins. I don't think anybody with some vile POS pick up can say that..)

Attention from folks saying OH that's so cool is, I presume, much more important than driving a car that works "pretty darn good" and lets you have the pleasure of driving well. rather than thrashing around just staying on the road..

Aren't there a handful of people who run trucks in the California Rally Series? F150, Tacoma, Ranger and one or two more?

I'm not a truck guy, in 2wd they are hard to drive fast on dirt roads. But, I did help build a standard cab, short bed Toyota 4x4 for running in the SW. With how it got built, that thing handles amazingly well in 4wd, except for the odd on brake squirelliness and understeer. Not a big deal, just makes you drive properly, brake in straight lines and turn with your foot on the gas. Tim, the owner/driver, does decently in CRS with it, 2nd place in Open4wd class for the season with a truck that makes about 150hp at the wheels. In CRS, Jim Pierce beat the crap out of most of the cars in a V8 powered 2wd Ranger, sold it to Jeff, who did well with it also when he kept it together. Micheal Taylor and John Black also did well with a 4 cylinder Ranger running in stock class. Jim Cox does alright too, back east, I hear. You can't say trucks never work in rallying, they do fine.
The Toyota 22re engine is known for it's bullet proof nature, it's working pretty damn well in my Celica creation so far.
-Jon

Littleina,

Welcome! Please add your real name and location as per our rules.

I have owned and worked on several Toyota trucks. They are great trucks and make good desert racers. There is a significant difference between desert racing and rallying in the PNW. A Toyota truck would not be well suited to the type of events that you would be likely to compete in.

There are lots of performance parts available for Toyota trucks but that does not solve the interior room and no weight over the drive axle problems. Notice how I said drive axle? Forget about 4WD. It won't work at speed. 2WD is your only realistic option. The early trucks are not the best. Look for second or third generation, 86 to 93.

Building a rally car is a big undertaking so it is best to only do it once! You want to look for something that gives you the most bang for your buck and gives you a platform that you can grow into. The Volvo 240 and VW Mk II Golf are great places to start. The Subarus are very popular also but 4WD adds considerable cost. Forget about anything old or obscure. The parts headaches are not worth it! The Saab 96 is a neat car but try to find a windshield for it!

If you must go down the Toyota truck path check out these web sites:

LC Engineering
DOA Race engines
Enginebuilder.com
Downey
Pirateoffroad.com
Marlincrawler.com

If you have any specific questions please feel free to PM.

It would be a very wise thing for you to spectate or better yet volunteer at a few rallies before you start. Try running a TSD rally in your street car so you get an understanding of the sport.

Good luck!

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

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jrally
I'm not a truck guy, in 2wd they are hard to drive fast on dirt roads. But, I did help build a standard cab, short bed Toyota 4x4 for running in the SW. With how it got built, that thing handles amazingly well in 4wd, except for the odd on brake squirelliness and understeer. Not a big deal, just makes you drive properly, brake in straight lines and turn with your foot on the gas. Tim, the owner/driver, does decently in CRS with it, 2nd place in Open4wd class for the season with a truck that makes about 150hp at the wheels. In CRS, Jim Pierce beat the crap out of most of the cars in a V8 powered 2wd Ranger, sold it to Jeff, who did well with it also when he kept it together. Micheal Taylor and John Black also did well with a 4 cylinder Ranger running in stock class. Jim Cox does alright too, back east, I hear. You can't say trucks never work in rallying, they do fine.
The Toyota 22re engine is known for it's bullet proof nature, it's working pretty damn well in my Celica creation so far.
-Jon

First off there is the whole issue with trucks versus cars. CRS vs 'normal' events. When SCCA had the real truck class and we had people running the national circuit I remember catching some of those trucks 6 and 8 miles into a stage. Mr.Homes could beat me but not by much and he is just faster than I was and his truck was/is the shitz. Can you build a truck that would be fun? Yes. Would it be an old Toy 4x4 ? Not bloody likely.

But specifically the truck she mentions has a whole bunch of negatives and pretty much no positives. That is what the main Focus (snicker) should be. A Rabbit PU would be better. At least they have easier suspension, weight in the right place and easier parts availability at most events.

If you have to have a Toyota truck find a newer 2wd with a 2.7 4cyl. They really are bullet proof for the most part, unlike the 22r/re. The trucks won't cost any more and likely less to build. Have more power, more refined suspension (still a truck ), parts availability at an event will be better, tho still poor.