Snow tire opinions - Yoko A034 vs Nokian

So, what's the opinion here? Are the A034 worth the expense or are street snow tires sufficient?

I was going to post this to that other forum, but I think there's more Canadians hanging around these parts. I ask not for Sno Drift, but for Big White, which I really want to go compete at this year.

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NoCoast
So, what's the opinion here? Are the A034 worth the expense or are street snow tires sufficient?

I was going to post this to that other forum, but I think there's more Canadians hanging around these parts. I ask not for Sno Drift, but for Big White, which I really want to go compete at this year.

Square shoulders for bite on turn in, gap for someplace for deeper snow to got, sqaue stable tread elements, compound that is done for pliability on low temps and studs for ice.

Get something that has that.

More snow that ice, A034's, more ice than snow, good street ice tires.. hard snow banks, tubes ( I always run tubes in street ice/snow tires). Last year Antoine ran cut IG20's for the night forest stages at Pierce-Neige... it was more ice than snow, but only barely. Lots of others ran A034's. Don't know what Pat was running as he was out. Really icy? Tractionized ice tires. In snow they will suck though...

Chris Martin will likely have some good advice.

-Martin.

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NoCoast
So, what's the opinion here? Are the A034 worth the expense or are street snow tires sufficient?

I was going to post this to that other forum, but I think there's more Canadians hanging around these parts. I ask not for Sno Drift, but for Big White, which I really want to go compete at this year.

I've done Big White both times now. Finished 4th and 5th overall and all the guys that beat us were on A034's. Spend the money and get them!

AO34s have won Big White both years its been run. The roads are ski-resort roads that are likely to be freshly ploughed for the event so unlikely to be a lot of ICE. Last year was icier and AO34s still won.

'Street' studs are allowed, but still lost to AO34s. Max 130 studs per tire, must be commonly available , round cross section and not hollow, max releif from the treadface which I can't recall - the studs in Johns post wouldn't be legal in both number and length.

I don't see tractionized tires coming into play.

The nice thing about the A034s is that if you use them in the conditions they were meant for they last forever. Run them on gravel (even gravelish) stages and they go away fast.

I personally have never used the A034. The reason being that i think they are a huge compremise tire.

I do not truely think they accell in any one condition, instead they are OK in most/all conditions, and you will rarely get caught out.

They are not an ice tire...on glare ice a tractionized tire will be better.

They are not a snow tire...in deep snow, a really skinny snow tire will be better.

The basic principal of the A034, is that it has an "ice" type of tire tread (soft and siped), but has big voids to be ok in snow. Basically you aren't effed with the A034 if you happen to hit ice, and you are not effed if you happen to hit snow.

A big argument for the A034's that i've heard is they have a "reinforced rally sidewall" after picking up a set myself, it's totally not true.


The A034's are very expensive...almost $240 cdn per tire, the last time i checked.


You could fairly easily "replicate" the A034's. Start with a street snow/ice tire, like a blizzak of icegaurd, and then go nuts with a Tire Cutter and create big voids, by hacking out tread blocks.

I think a Blizzak WS-70 is about $80us from Tire rack... Means you can easily get 2 blizzaks for the price of one A034.

IMHO the Blizzak is also a much better tire than the IceGuards.

For what it's worth.....IMHO Nokians are some of the most overrated tires in the world....they are riding on a name, and people often think "those in finland have lots of snow...they know how to build a snow tire". Well they do....the problem is, at home...they also allow Studs. Their "studless" tires aren't as good as they should be, the Japanese tires have alot more technology into their Studless tires..and they work better.

Nokians are like Hawk Brakes, Mobil 1 Oil, or Kleenex! Known brand names, that everyone just assumes are the sh!t.....


As Martin said "tractionized tires are bad on snow"....they are not as bad as you think they are. Especially if you spend a few minutes with a tire cutter after tractionizing, the common problem is that if tires are not tractionized properly (this is a skill), then the blocks will often close up. Taking a few minutes with a tire cutter to open up the blocks, or create some voids like the A034 goes a really long way.


I think the results you are seeing quoted from Big White, is probably more due to the drivers in the top 3, than the tires. Good guys, who knew how to drive on snow, knew the roads, and just happened to be on A034's.

Also remember that the tire that the Front runners at an event will run, should probably be different than the tires you should run when seeded at the back....where they find a dusting of snow, those at the middle of the pack will find polished ice.

A couple of years ago at Perce Neige, Frank Sprongl went out on tractionized Blizzaks, for the second running of a long ~28 km stage. the others went out on A034's, and Frank promptly took a huge amount of time off them, and basically set the tone for the rest of the rally. Frank is an ice racer, he knows about tractionizing, siping, and cutting tires, and he's not affraid to use those methods......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2011 08:41AM by Do It Sidewayz.

I bought some Firestone Winterhawk tires for the Volvo this year, they were $65 each in a 205 55 16. The forward and braking grip in snow and on ice is pretty damn good, they just need some help with turn in. In the Volvo, with 250hp and a welded diff, I could mash the throttle in 2nd in it would just go with no drama.

Ya know Chris, that was kind of what I was thinking. Considering much of any pre-event testing will occur at the Bridgestone Winter Driving Schools' ice tracks, I think a cut up ice tire would be great.

I've driven with many different snow tires. Some of Nokian's products are overrated and over priced for sure. I wouldn't even consider any tire they sell that's non-studded as that is not their specialty. Toss on a Hakka 10 (now called the Nordman), Hakka 2, or Hakka 5 and go drive on packed powder/slushy and you might just get really bored. On ice they are okay but not supreme. Blizzaks have always seemed to me to be much better on ice but shorter lived and not as supreme on packed pow.

It was mostly inspired by Dave's selling 8 A034's for $1100 and deciding if those would be worth it or if I'd be better off getting something else. You'd be amazed at the deals you can get in spring and summer on snow tires on craigslist here in Denver. My last full set was virtually brand new Hankook studded tires for $80. The Suby ones are Nokian Hakka 10's on WRX wheels and we got those for $300, again, tires nearly brand new.

To be honest, i don't even consider studded tires.

#1. Because they are not allowed in Ontario, or in a CARS event.
#2. Because a well prepped Blizzak or other studless tire will offer more grip...and you don't have to worry about spitting studs.

In my short experience I found that Blizzaks were the best overall tires. I never really did anything to them but I had a set of MZ-01 (or maybe 02), that are sadly not available anymore and it was good in any condition except really deep snow (which you should not encounter too often on stage if you keep it on the road!).

The two first rallyx I did with them I could have won if it was not for some stupid driving errors... The "top" runners were on tractionized tires running open class STI or WRX and I was on my stock Blizzaks on my almost stock DSM!

But they do wear fast. I used them for those 2 rallyX plus a few practice and a little bit of daily driving, put about 1000 km on them. Tried to use them the next year at the rallyX and it was night and day compared to when they were new. A bit of edge cutting was all it took to make them almost new though.

Oh and you NEED tubes with blizzak. I debeaded a few while practicing on ice until I added tubes.

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Francois

Sweet. WS60's in 145/65 R15. Now to find a bunch of 15X4.5 wheels.

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Do It Sidewayz
I personally have never used the A034.

Keep this in mind when reading Chris' comments

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Morison

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Do It Sidewayz
I personally have never used the A034.

Keep this in mind when reading Chris' comments

Keith...surprisingly after Ice Racing for way too many years, I have a pretty good idea what works, and what won't by just looking at and feeling them......it's scary! The A034's don't turn my crank.

I have A LOT of them (like maybe 12), but even free, the shipping charges would make them expensive!

oups I forgot to quote Grant's post while replying!

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Francois



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2011 03:05PM by Francois.

15X4.5 wheels that fit the Merkur!!!