Snow tire opinions - Yoko A034 vs Nokian

For what it's worth...........

Nokian- I have found that the side walls are weak.

Blizzak- They are very popular in Fairbanks.

A034- Like Kieth said, very popular on snow rallies and have won both of the Big White events.

I'm old school. I like studded tires. Studs will not hurt in the snow and they are still the best on the ice. I have run a number of Canadian winter TSD events and my Hankook I-Pike studded tires have been great. I just wish that I could have gotten them in a more narrow size. Don't forget to run tubes if you are going to use street tires.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Quote
NoCoast
15X4.5 wheels that fit the Merkur!!!

Sentance fragment. youse axing a question? or making a statement?

You can find some Saab 5.5 or 6 x 15" 1988 on 900

Chris,
Having run on AO34s on stages AND having run on Blizzaks and having run on tractionised blizaks (mind you not 'cut' tractionised blizaks) I can tell you that the 'sweet spot' for AO34s is more versatile than the other choices.

Typical stages, at big white at least, are a mix of snow and ice and you won't pick a winner for the entire stage. The only time you'll get anything but a mix of conditions is if you get consistant snow cover which is where the 34s do really well.

Saying that the winners won because they were better drivers is kinda stating the obvious ... but isn't it also possible that they were on 34s be cause they were making the right tire choice or that they are better drivers partly because of making the right equipment choices?

I've driven Thunderbird on studdless Hakka Qs and on studded Kuhmo KW19s and the studded 19s were FAR superior in traction in icy conditions, even with street studs. Our rally rules allow more exposed stud and - to a point - provide better grip yet. On sheer ice, a studded tire will shine - over a full stage, specifically at Big White, you'll see enough snow cover that the ice behaviour is negated.

When it comes to sidewalls, yes - the 34 sidewall isn't as beefy as a typical gravel tire but it is a hell of a lot better than a typical winter tire.

The other thing is that if you are running tubes - make sure you use some sort of lube/release agent in the tire as if the tube adheres to the tire, the rotation of the tire on the rim will rip off the valve stem. (I was shocked at how much tires rotate on a rim of a rally car)

If you do a good job putting the tubes in the tires and get all the air out from between the tire and the tube before the bead seats you wont have any problems with the tire rotating and ripping the stem out. At least I never did in 3 years (including 2 sno drifts and many tsd's and rallyx's) of driving tubed blizzaks. I mounted them myself. I've seen poorly mounted tires pull the stems out in 50 miles of normal driving.

A034 seemed to be the tire of choice (for those that had them) at the 2008 100AW where it suddenly snowed and froze. Too cold and snowy for rally tires, but too much gravel poking through for snow/ice tires. Thats the type of situation where I would look to use the A034s.

I've got one old (but brand new, I just pulled the sticker off it) hakka 10 that looks nothing like the current nordmans. Its big and blocky with big gaps, some siping, and also pinned for studs. Seems like it would be good in the fluff.

Looks like this crappy picture


For a snow/ice mix I'd go with a blizzak or the nokian rsi depending on your budget.
From some testing I've done on a frozen lake the ws-50 and rsi were pretty much equal in terms of ice traction. Not sure how the newer blizzak models stack up, though.
If there is more snow than ice, do some cuts to open up the tread a bit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2011 02:37PM by Carl S.

we ran the 14" Michelin c5s at big white. we only had 130 stud in them (out of 256).
some of the stages are what i'd call a "groomed run" with packed powder.
I'm going to say that this tire was the jam.
other sections were getting packed/polished or gravelly.
I'm still going to say our tire was the jam.
I think the a034 was everywhere is because they are a "snow rally tire" that's easier to get.

My limited experience probably won't help much, but I'll share it just because I can.

No experience with a Yokohama snowtire. One thing I've found that I do like, about Other yokohama tires, is that some of them have very stiff sidewalls.

Most of my "performance" experience with snowtires are on the ice rallyX/time trials we have on a ~1-mile course on Lake Winnebago. The first set of snow tires I got were some Dunlop Graspics. They were pretty good, I liked them a lot. I've used Blizzak MZ02's, those were even better tires. never debeaded, they had a very good balance between sipes and voids and blocks. I ran them at about 25psi, and debeaded one tire one time, in a spontaneous un-sanctioned rallyX in a guy's cornfield. Actually, I wedged rock chips into the bead, and let out air, didn't really pop the bead off.

I had the chance to drive a friend's subaru 2.5rs, with General Altimax Arctic snows. I really enjoyed them a lot, they seemed to work great in slush, powder, and ice. Those tires seemed to be the hot ticket, as last year, those tires were on all of the first place winners in the snowtire classes (4wd, fwd, rwd).

This year, I'm running a set of Blizzak WS-50 tires on the car that's both my ride to work and my playtoy on weekends (Mazda Protege 4WD). I lthem a lot so far in the snow/slush/ice we've had on the roads, but haven't had a chance to play on the lake yet. this coming saturday night we've got one event, and another event on sunday during the day. I'll probably be running my studded tires (bolted falken azenis) just because they let me go faster and have a chance of getting out of a corner sideways. But I'm sure I'll take a few runs on rubber just to see how they act.

Another tire that I've used, on both my Volvo and my protege, are the Winterforce tires. they're great in the deep stuff, and have served me well through several rallyXes and a few winters.

--sarge

---

---** To be in compliance with the Anarchy **---
Jorden R. Kleier
Baraboo, Wisconsin, USA
1990 Mazdog Protege 4WD
1973

Nice one Carl. Looks like they're now the Nordman 2, which is based on the Hakka 2 from my guess/memory. I had Nordmans first (right at time when they made the name change and they definitely were the Hakka 10 pattern, great in deep snow, not as good on ice) and then Hakka 2 which is similar but better than the 10 on ice and hard packed snow.

The current Nordman is the Hakka 4.

Since it's a studdable design, it works well in loose and packed snow, not so well in slush or ice. I've got them on my street car. They're also loud as hell.

Bringing this back from the dead...

Note 1: I am a Navi, my opinions on tires means jack shit!
Note 2: this is a question because I am curious, nothing more. I dont make tire choices.


I have been on both Studded and A034's in a 2wd, and 4wd car. And compromise was the name of the game in every event. Anyone care to fill in the blanks?

Snow (<1" ) Ice Base (very little or no gravel):

Snow (>1" ) Ice Base (very little or no gravel):

Snow (Slush) Some ice, lots of gravel:

Frozen gravel and Ice:

---

Intercom and electronics dude. www.zerodegreec.ca

I've figured it out (with a little help from the WRC boys). If I can make it up to Big White I will run studded C5s on the front left and back right, and AO34s on the front right and back left.

/thread

LOL!

But what two tires will you put in the boot for spares?

Quote
fliz


But what two tires will you put in the boot for spares?

2 of each...need some weight over those drive wheels!

Bryan, the bottom two, IMO that would be A034 conditions. You might see significant wear on them though.

The other two are hit and miss. Technically, if it is cold out, and a solid base of snow/ice on the road with less than 1" of snowfall on it, it is going to become polished ice/snow very quickly. In which case, you are looking at a tractionized tire.

For more than 1" of snow, you are looking at running a A034 again. A skinny (175 or 185 wide) studded winter might work. Might.

I don't think that "studded" winters are BETTER than A034's. A034's have a lot going for them. I think that price-wise, you can make a studded winter almost as good as an A034 in a VARIETY of situations. This is rally, rarely are all stages the same in winter. I can tell you my studded altimax's have AWESOME forward and braking bite, the only issue I had with them at the test day (which started out with a snowy road, then changed to mud/snow/icy clay with water on top) was rear end lateral traction. And when they wear out, I'll have spent ~$800 studded, mounted and balanced for 5 of them, vs $1300+ for 5 mounted and balanced A034's.

That's basically a regional entry fee paid for. For myself, that is important. But if you are also planning on doing any winter nationals that disallow studded, the answer is obvious. A034's for everything besides pure ice, that calls for tractionized. Wim's budget doesn't seem too bad, so A034's for everything is probably the way to go.

Edit-
BTW, I am doing recce in the rally car on soft gravels (I want to cut them if I get the time). It is supposed to be 11*C tomorrow in Cochrane, the snow/ice won't last long if it keeps that up into Sunday.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2012 02:24PM by HiTempguy.

Quote
NoCoast
Sweet. WS60's in 145/65 R15. Now to find a bunch of 15X4.5 wheels.

Those are for the smart car, specifically the front wheels. Got a pair for my smart.

As far as Chris' comments concerning Nokian, I had studded Hakkas (4s, I think) and studless Blizzaks (don't remember which ones) for my Audi A4. I preferred the studded Hakkas. With the changing conditions of driving long-ish road sections, they were a better choice for me.

alan