1974 Manta...

http://olympic.craigslist.org/pts/2186792130.html

but the engine is blown

---

SteveL
This is the point in the killing spree when you really should turn the gun on yourself

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SteveL
1974 Manta...

http://olympic.craigslist.org/pts/2186792130.html

but the engine is blown

Lesse, pistons, stock 93mm, 45 comp hgt., 23 pin rod, rods 128mm c-c

(mumble mumble grumble)

OK howzabout we go 134c-c on the rods, and 39,5mm on comp hgt, 22 pin and 94mm pistons---$220 for a set of 4 forged pistons, pins and rings?

But where to get some 134mm c-c rods?

OH! what's this on my shelf? Lesseeeee OH! a 134mm rod for a 52mm journal!
Just right!

Problem solved!

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SteveL
1974 Manta...

http://olympic.craigslist.org/pts/2186792130.html

but the engine is blown

Even better!

The 73-74 heads were inferior anyway; more prone to crack in the 2-3 exhaust valse areas.....

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john vanlandingham

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SteveL
1974 Manta...

http://olympic.craigslist.org/pts/2186792130.html

but the engine is blown

Lesse, pistons, stock 93mm, 45 comp hgt., 23 pin rod, rods 128mm c-c

(mumble mumble grumble)

OK howzabout we go 134c-c on the rods, and 39,5mm on comp hgt, 22 pin and 94mm pistons---$220 for a set of 4 forged pistons, pins and rings?

But where to get some 134mm c-c rods?

OH! what's this on my shelf? Lesseeeee OH! a 134mm rod for a 52mm journal!
Just right!

Problem solved!

I gotta keep this in mind, John......

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starion887

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
SteveL
1974 Manta...

http://olympic.craigslist.org/pts/2186792130.html

but the engine is blown

Lesse, pistons, stock 93mm, 45 comp hgt., 23 pin rod, rods 128mm c-c

(mumble mumble grumble)

OK howzabout we go 134c-c on the rods, and 39,5mm on comp hgt, 22 pin and 94mm pistons---$220 for a set of 4 forged pistons, pins and rings?

But where to get some 134mm c-c rods?

OH! what's this on my shelf? Lesseeeee OH! a 134mm rod for a 52mm journal!
Just right!

Problem solved!

I gotta keep this in mind, John......

That's the Sooooper Econo version but it was described as "the best motor I ever had"..

A moderate upscale version is 145mm c-c rods (+17mm) and minus 17 on comp hgt or 28mm comp hgt..

Whaddya 'spose a 28mm comp hgt piston weighs versus a 45mm tall beast? Maybe 1 pound less.

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bttmotorsport

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wvonkessler
Drop in the Saturn Sky drivetrain and 4link a Chevy S-10 7.5 inch 10bolt axle. Escort kit will work fine, and it gets rid of the odd three-link original suspension. Opel quickrack. Get JVL to do up a suspension.

This is afterall, the same as a Vauxhall Chevette, and very similar to the US one.

Wilson,
No need to get rid of the Original rear suspension, works fine, problem with Opels, Ascona,Manta as well Kadett is the front suspension, rear has so good grip that car understeers quite badly, there´s an easy fix for that though, go sideways.... =)

Don't lump the Kadett/GT front suspension in with the Manta A/Ascona A front suspension. The Kadett is a transverse leaf spring, with independent upper/lower control arms; less travel, and not as easy to set spring rate.

The Manta A/Ascona A front is coils with with independent upper and lower control arms, much better for spring changes. Both have the control arm locations in the typical non-optimal locations/angles that is typical of passenger cars. Stock front suspension travel is just at 9"; pretty good.

The pain in the a** for the Manta A/Ascona A front end is that the ends of the front anti-sway bar are also the locating mechanism for the lower control arms. So, making the front roll stiffness less is a pain. But, a 3/4" rear sway bar, with stiffer springs all around, and increasing the rear wheel cylinders from 5/8" to 3/4" diameter, makes the Ascona A-Manta A really quite well behaved on gravel, in terms of neutral steer, and good rally braking habits.

The stock rear suspension is actually quite nice in some ways; long lower training links, coils, very long rear shocks, and a panhard rod; again, lots of stock suspension travel. With a good bite on a firm gravel surface, the torque tube takes all the axle torque and transfers this to the center of the car; this weight transfer will lift the car flat up into the air, rather than the nose pointing up as for most cars. This tends to make the weight transfer in the car more predictable in my rallying experinece, and the car is not pitched up or down as much with changes in the throttle. You just gotta know how to fix the rubber bits on the torque tube that are soft or sometimes break.

All the stuff you didn't want to know beacuse you aren't going to build an old rally Opel....!

Mark B.

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starion887
All the stuff you didn't want to know beacuse you aren't going to build an old rally Opel....!

Mark B.

Actually, Jari has an Ascona 400, as well as other Opels.

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starion887

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bttmotorsport

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wvonkessler
Drop in the Saturn Sky drivetrain and 4link a Chevy S-10 7.5 inch 10bolt axle. Escort kit will work fine, and it gets rid of the odd three-link original suspension. Opel quickrack. Get JVL to do up a suspension.

This is afterall, the same as a Vauxhall Chevette, and very similar to the US one.

Wilson,
No need to get rid of the Original rear suspension, works fine, problem with Opels, Ascona,Manta as well Kadett is the front suspension, rear has so good grip that car understeers quite badly, there´s an easy fix for that though, go sideways.... =)

Don't lump the Kadett/GT front suspension in with the Manta A/Ascona A front suspension. The Kadett is a transverse leaf spring, with independent upper/lower control arms; less travel, and not as easy to set spring rate.

The Manta A/Ascona A front is coils with with independent upper and lower control arms, much better for spring changes. Both have the control arm locations in the typical non-optimal locations/angles that is typical of passenger cars. Stock front suspension travel is just at 9"; pretty good.

The pain in the a** for the Manta A/Ascona A front end is that the ends of the front anti-sway bar are also the locating mechanism for the lower control arms. So, making the front roll stiffness less is a pain. But, a 3/4" rear sway bar, with stiffer springs all around, and increasing the rear wheel cylinders from 5/8" to 3/4" diameter, makes the Ascona A-Manta A really quite well behaved on gravel, in terms of neutral steer, and good rally braking habits.

The stock rear suspension is actually quite nice in some ways; long lower training links, coils, very long rear shocks, and a panhard rod; again, lots of stock suspension travel. With a good bite on a firm gravel surface, the torque tube takes all the axle torque and transfers this to the center of the car; this weight transfer will lift the car flat up into the air, rather than the nose pointing up as for most cars. This tends to make the weight transfer in the car more predictable in my rallying experinece, and the car is not pitched up or down as much with changes in the throttle. You just gotta know how to fix the rubber bits on the torque tube that are soft or sometimes break.

All the stuff you didn't want to know beacuse you aren't going to build an old rally Opel....!

Mark B.

Mark, the "offical" rather than my normal oafish-al rear wheel cylinder for gravel use was 22mm or more or less 7/8.
Stock was 19mm/ 3/4".
Stock on the Saabs with powerbrakes was 5/8" and they Homologated even in Gp1 the earlier wagon 3/4".

I recall these numbers from the inane and stupid arguments by nearly every kid I told because EVERY ONE of the little punks would "explain" how hydraulics worked and dismissed looking right in my cataloges, because "I've read Carrol Smith's Shove your head up your ass to Win".

Seriously, every one..
Of course they were wrong and every one--guys who weren't in daily contact so the uniformity was well peculiar, every one explained their 180 degree blunder in the same way..

Also it is memorable because the 3/4" the Mantas and Asconas had STOCK
was the Saab upgrade size.

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john vanlandingham
Mark, the "offical" rather than my normal oafish-al rear wheel cylinder for gravel use was 22mm or more or less 7/8.
Stock was 19mm/ 3/4".
Stock on the Saabs with powerbrakes was 5/8" and they Homologated even in Gp1 the earlier wagon 3/4".

I recall these numbers from the inane and stupid arguments by nearly every kid I told because EVERY ONE of the little punks would "explain" how hydraulics worked and dismissed looking right in my cataloges, because "I've read Carrol Smith's Shove your head up your ass to Win".

Seriously, every one..
Of course they were wrong and every one--guys who weren't in daily contact so the uniformity was well peculiar, every one explained their 180 degree blunder in the same way..

Also it is memorable because the 3/4" the Mantas and Asconas had STOCK
was the Saab upgrade size.

Well, I AM testing some old memory cells, and as I recall, every rear wheel cylinder I removed in the US cars (and I removed a lot of them) were 16mm (approx 5/8".......the 3/4" (19mm) rear Chevette cylinders were the cheap upgrade. 22mm may have been the 'official' upgrade. Seems like we went over this before.....

But not that important. The point is that a simple rear cylinder change made the braking a lot better balanced; wish all good upgrades were that cheap and easy!

One thing I forgot to add: The rear wheel drums are approx 9" diameter x 1-3/4" wide. Nice and big for such a light car. I never overheated them or had any rear brake fade (of course, that was 140 HP!), even with the larger rear cylinders. I was amazed when I looked at the 7" to 7-1/2" rear drums that came on so many of the Jap cars of the day..

Regards,
Mark B.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2011 07:51AM by starion887.

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starion887

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bttmotorsport

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wvonkessler
Drop in the Saturn Sky drivetrain and 4link a Chevy S-10 7.5 inch 10bolt axle. Escort kit will work fine, and it gets rid of the odd three-link original suspension. Opel quickrack. Get JVL to do up a suspension.

This is afterall, the same as a Vauxhall Chevette, and very similar to the US one.

Wilson,
No need to get rid of the Original rear suspension, works fine, problem with Opels, Ascona,Manta as well Kadett is the front suspension, rear has so good grip that car understeers quite badly, there´s an easy fix for that though, go sideways.... =)

Don't lump the Kadett/GT front suspension in with the Manta A/Ascona A front suspension. The Kadett is a transverse leaf spring, with independent upper/lower control arms; less travel, and not as easy to set spring rate.

The Manta A/Ascona A front is coils with with independent upper and lower control arms, much better for spring changes. Both have the control arm locations in the typical non-optimal locations/angles that is typical of passenger cars. Stock front suspension travel is just at 9"; pretty good.

The pain in the a** for the Manta A/Ascona A front end is that the ends of the front anti-sway bar are also the locating mechanism for the lower control arms. So, making the front roll stiffness less is a pain. But, a 3/4" rear sway bar, with stiffer springs all around, and increasing the rear wheel cylinders from 5/8" to 3/4" diameter, makes the Ascona A-Manta A really quite well behaved on gravel, in terms of neutral steer, and good rally braking habits.

The stock rear suspension is actually quite nice in some ways; long lower training links, coils, very long rear shocks, and a panhard rod; again, lots of stock suspension travel. With a good bite on a firm gravel surface, the torque tube takes all the axle torque and transfers this to the center of the car; this weight transfer will lift the car flat up into the air, rather than the nose pointing up as for most cars. This tends to make the weight transfer in the car more predictable in my rallying experinece, and the car is not pitched up or down as much with changes in the throttle. You just gotta know how to fix the rubber bits on the torque tube that are soft or sometimes break.

All the stuff you didn't want to know beacuse you aren't going to build an old rally Opel....!

Mark B.

Mark,
Kadett C doesn´t have leaf in front anymore, B did, C has basically same as Ascona/Manta B, just smaller size....
And by the way, if somebody knows where to get 22mm rear brake cylinders, PM me, completely impossible to get them in Europe anywhere...

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starion887
Well, I AM testing some old memory cells, and as I recall, every rear wheel cylinder I removed in the US cars (and I removed a lot of them) were 16mm (approx 5/8".......the 3/4" (19mm) rear Chevette cylinders were the cheap upgrade. 22mm may have been the 'official' upgrade. Seems like we went over this before.....

Mark B.

You're correct Mark. Stock US-spec Opels (GT, Kadett B, Manta/Ascona A) had the 5/8" rear cylinders. However the later Manta/Ascona B models had the 3/4" cylinders. I had to special-order those from Europe when I ran C & R....the 5/8" ones I could still buy from US suppliers (still got some in fact!).

I remember the Opel 'Sports' catalog listed 5 different sized rear wheel cylinders however, all larger than OEM.

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Ascona73

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starion887
Well, I AM testing some old memory cells, and as I recall, every rear wheel cylinder I removed in the US cars (and I removed a lot of them) were 16mm (approx 5/8".......the 3/4" (19mm) rear Chevette cylinders were the cheap upgrade. 22mm may have been the 'official' upgrade. Seems like we went over this before.....

Mark B.

You're correct Mark. Stock US-spec Opels (GT, Kadett B, Manta/Ascona A) had the 5/8" rear cylinders. However the later Manta/Ascona B models had the 3/4" cylinders. I had to special-order those from Europe when I ran C & R....the 5/8" ones I could still buy from US suppliers (still got some in fact!).

I remember the Opel 'Sports' catalog listed 5 different sized rear wheel cylinders however, all larger than OEM.

Well those here in SEATTLE.....
Whatever, 22mm was the size guys who were fast told us to use.
They were, as usual, right.

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bttmotorsport
And by the way, if somebody knows where to get 22mm rear brake cylinders, PM me, completely impossible to get them in Europe anywhere...

See here: http://www.opelgt.com/forums/group-5-brakes/26055-source-22mm-wheel-cylinders.html#post234207

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bttmotorsport
Mark,
Kadett C doesn´t have leaf in front anymore, B did, C has basically same as Ascona/Manta B, just smaller size....
And by the way, if somebody knows where to get 22mm rear brake cylinders, PM me, completely impossible to get them in Europe anywhere...

Yep, I am quite aware of that. I was talking about the Kadett A-B, and GT's with the front transverse leaf spring. Did not make that clear.

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Ascona73
You're correct Mark. Stock US-spec Opels (GT, Kadett B, Manta/Ascona A) had the 5/8" rear cylinders. However the later Manta/Ascona B models had the 3/4" cylinders. I had to special-order those from Europe when I ran C & R....the 5/8" ones I could still buy from US suppliers (still got some in fact!).

I remember the Opel 'Sports' catalog listed 5 different sized rear wheel cylinders however, all larger than OEM.

Thanks, Bob. Glad I was not losing my mind.... yet!