Olympus MaxAttack

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Sofa King

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john vanlandingham

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Gravel Spray
V8? just the long block is 400 pounds!!



Damn, looks like a great field in Max Attack.

But that's only 130-150 lbs more than a Volvo for no more power, no more ft/lbs and a bunch of fab to accomplish nothing.

Come oooooooooon!

Veeeeeeeeee Eight man!

Who are you trying to convince, and what are you trying to convince them of?

I am, as always sarcastically agreeing that O"h man a V8" is a bright idea. It's a silly idea, a pointless waste of effort for nothing and talking reasonably--pointly out just how high placings a good driver in a B23T 8v did didn't work, pointing out how effective ON STAGES a warmed over Gold 16v worked matching the overblown V6 turbo didn't help, reality clearly means nothing so if reality means nothing, logic means nothing, so I am agreeing with V8, and being ridiculous>

Maybe not very funny, but neither is a V8.

I just don't see why you get so worked up over the whole thing.
I mean other than some strange desire to see your customers actually win races or something.

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Sofa King
I just don't see why you get so worked up over the whole thing.
I mean other than some strange desire to see your customers actually win races or something.

Worked up?
Just comments, son, just comments..


And you're right on the second part.
:pow:

Since we've butchered a perfectly good Olympus thread...
The TR-7 V8 did pretty well in rally as did the Rover Vitesse. Several Escorts have been converted and are currently running in Australia and hill climbs elsewhere. V8 power is quite reliable, great low end and very easy to tune. Since only 2 or 3 % of ralliests are actually competitve in an overall sense then the rest really need to worry about having fun.

As to the drop-in power plant remark...none of the proper Volvo builds actually have much of a drop in anything...do they? Chevy gear boxes, Toyota diffs, custom made front cross members, 4 link rear suspensions and so on. To be competitive the cars have to be totally butchered and rebuilt. So who gives a shit if a different set of motor mounts need be fabbed. Probably one of the easiest things in the world to do.

A set of aluminum heads, intake and tube headers and that engine weight taint so bad for the inherant reliability and brute, easy to modulate power. As long as he gets on stage, he'll be grining ear to ear, and so will the speccies.

Well said Gene. I really don't care what engine he uses, but I do know a V8 can be very reliable, and potent. Torque from 1400rpm can't be that bad....

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heymagic
Since we've butchered a perfectly good Olympus thread...
The TR-7 V8 did pretty well in rally as did the Rover Vitesse. Several Escorts have been converted and are currently running in Australia and hill climbs elsewhere. V8 power is quite reliable, great low end and very easy to tune. Since only 2 or 3 % of ralliests are actually competitve in an overall sense then the rest really need to worry about having fun.

As to the drop-in power plant remark...none of the proper Volvo builds actually have much of a drop in anything...do they? Chevy gear boxes, Toyota diffs, custom made front cross members, 4 link rear suspensions and so on. To be competitive the cars have to be totally butchered and rebuilt. So who gives a shit if a different set of motor mounts need be fabbed. Probably one of the easiest things in the world to do.

A set of aluminum heads, intake and tube headers and that engine weight taint so bad for the inherant reliability and brute, easy to modulate power. As long as he gets on stage, he'll be grining ear to ear, and so will the speccies.

Well since about 1983 4cylinder turbo power have done just a weeeee weeee bit better than V8s
All that could be said for retaining the ordinary 8v turbo Volvo motor
: enough power, easy to tune, great low end power---if people restrain themselves...

That's the whole thing: IF guys RESTRAIN themselves, they have easy power (delivered in the time and the amounts proven to be what works) for nothing basically, EQUAL of better reliability, easy maintenance.

Gene I'm not talking about 'clean sheet of paper build" of a V8, I already said WITH A SIZABLE budget, you can build a reliable, fun to flog V8.

But just grabbing some unknown pedigree V8 thing and expecting it to last---presuming it gets beat on---is dodgy.

Since only 2-3% of ralliests are competitiive...
no reason to bother with V8,

And "the crowds" loved Jardevall more in the Volvo---4 cylinder turbo powered Volvo..

That's the point.
The motor isn't what is going to make Charles GO BETTER.....so no need for a substitute.
If Charles doesn't fuck up THE REST of the CAR, and IF he drives it , he'll have MORE fun.

I want to put a 3 liter duratec V6 in my volvo. Probably millions of them around, as they were used in various fords, mazdas, lincolns, and jaguars from 2000 to present. Available in 200, 220, and 240 hp versions. All aluminum. Some used in RWD layouts too. Fits within the RA group 2 limits as well, although I'd only be allowed to bring the car's weight down to 2500 lbs or something. Used ones seem to go for $800-$1000 with under 100k miles. It'd be a little extra effort to make it work, but I dont see being able to make that much power reliably for the same money spent. Maybe you could with a turbo volvo motor in G5, but I want to run G2 because thats where all my buddies are.

PS: John, toyota rear axle has been purchased and should make its way to me by next weekend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2011 10:29AM by Carl S.

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Carl S
I want to put a 3 liter duratec V6 in my volvo. Probably millions of them around, as they were used in various fords, mazdas, lincolns, and jaguars from 2000 to present. Available in 200, 220, and 240 hp versions. All aluminum. Some used in RWD layouts too. Fits within the RA group 2 limits as well, although I'd only be allowed to bring the car's weight down to 2500 lbs or something

That's IF the very questionable idea that "Ford owned Volvo for a few years---years after the car was made---then sold it severing any connection" idea was bought, which I think---as the rule reads---is clearly not a legitimate reading.


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Used ones seem to go for $800-$1000 with under 100k miles.

The Volvo motor in the car costs ZEEEEEEERO, so advantage Volvo.

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It'd be a little extra effort to make it work, but I dont see being able to make that much power reliably for the same money spent.

Gonna make me look up the ft/lbs?
And in any case always remember the inflexible rule: what the motor doesn't make for torque, the gearbox and final drive does.

Just gear it shorter and it will have the same "ax" as the 3 liter V6.

I remind you again, Tom Buress matches a 3.0 V6 with a big T4 turbo on real stages with a 2.0 16v Vw with little girly cams.

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Maybe you could with a turbo volvo motor in G5, but I want to run G2 because thats where all my buddies are.

That's legit. I want to sell off the 4x4 drivetrain from my Ford thing cause everybody I know is in 2wd because although I would likely beat them anyway, they would legitimately have a right to snivel and say "Youse gots stinking 4x4, whaaaah! wa wa whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!"
And I'd have to agree.

the Gp5 vs Gp2 thing is a hard one cause I KNOW that if people did the SIMPLE stuff i push on these bigger 8v turbos, and couple it with the right T5 and say 4.3 axle it IS a very very EASY package to go really fast with (that is why I push it, it's easy and cheap and we know, I say KNOW it works) but in actual real world conditions many Gp2 guys do OK with their package as they have them...
The difference is a presumtive "what if".
What IF Gp2 guys want to up the package?
THEN they get to start spending huge multiples of money compared to the Gp5 guy who just opens the throttle more.

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PS: John, toyota rear axle has been purchased and should make its way to me by next weekend.

Hokie dokie, whip that thing open and see whatcher gots in there.

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john vanlandingham


I remind you again, Tom Buress matches a 3.0 V6 with a big T4 turbo on real stages with a 2.0 16v Vw with little girly cams.

Yeah, and I was trading times with them on day two of LSPR 07 with my stock 2.0 16v, and 4.46 final. Plus I was running tulips, not notes

But what kind of power can a volvo put out without a turbo for $1000 or so? I'm thinking in terms of hp or torques per dollar, and if its within the rules the 3L v6 seems like a good choice for an easy 200-220 torqies and horsies.

I can't believe JVL of all people is trying to hide behind the rule book...

First off, another competitor would have to have the balls to protest a car over an engine swap. Then it would get handed to the stewards. They ask for tech input. I doubt any decision would be made at an event. When the ownership link is this confusing http://jalopnik.com/#!5626658 and Volvo did actually sell Ford engines under the guise of Volvo Marine as well as being owned by Ford for a time, do you really think anyone cares a bunch? Especially at a regional level? The rule as written is very ambiguous and open to interpretation... THE RULE 2. The engine is unrestricted, but must be derived (at least the engine
block) from a product line offered by the manufacturer of the vehicle. Nothing about years involved.

At the very least the Volvo Marine engine line was a product offered by Volvo. The claimant has the burden of proof, how are you going to prove that the Volvo and Ford connection isn't allowable? Not to mention you have to post a $200 bond, which you lose if you're not found correct.

I also believe the Stewards have the right to dismiss it if there is no performance advantage, which you have testified here that it is actually a performance disadvantage, so??

arg! thread wasn't butchered...well perhaps now it is

I don't think John was anything but good humored and lightly jabbing with logic, nothing wrong with that. The intervention comment got me...lets talk about our feelings, shall we?? Sheesh!

And you're right Gene, the best possible rallycar for any given dude/dudette is one that stokes their modivation to build, and run it within their budget and built in resources like supplies, knowledge of product, friends knowledge etc etc.

That being said, anyway you look it it, the V8 is STILL 400 POUNDS!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2011 01:19PM by Gravel Spray.

I sure am glad I didn't try to shoehorn the M5 5.0L V8 into my car. Of course the straight six is no featherweight either...but at 240hp/225tq and a 4.56 R&P it should spin the tires at least through 3rd. Nice thing about the 1995 motor is that it's a 3.0L so it'll fit into G2, or its still under the limit for adding forced induction and playing in G5...crap, this could be about to get expensive again. LOL

Dave

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Gravel Spray
arg! thread wasn't butchered...well perhaps now it is

I don't think John was anything but good humored and lightly jabbing with logic, nothing wrong with that. The intervention comment got me...lets talk about our feelings, shall we?? Sheesh!

And you're right Gene, the best possible rallycar for any given dude/dudette is one that stokes their modivation to build, and run it within their budget and built in resources like supplies, knowledge of product, friends knowledge etc etc.

That being said, anyway you look it it, the V8 is STILL 400 POUNDS!!!!

Yes it is, but since we don't rabidly focus on weight reduction as we should, it'll still get the job done at a very low cost. I've seen more than one crew member than has been supersized....

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heymagic

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Gravel Spray
arg! thread wasn't butchered...well perhaps now it is

I don't think John was anything but good humored and lightly jabbing with logic, nothing wrong with that. The intervention comment got me...lets talk about our feelings, shall we?? Sheesh!

And you're right Gene, the best possible rallycar for any given dude/dudette is one that stokes their modivation to build, and run it within their budget and built in resources like supplies, knowledge of product, friends knowledge etc etc.

That being said, anyway you look it it, the V8 is STILL 400 POUNDS!!!!

Yes it is, but since we don't rabidly focus on weight reduction as we should, it'll still get the job done at a very low cost. I've seen more than one crew member than has been supersized....

I remember when John Elkin co-drove for Nat Stow at OT, big guy, he had one butt cheek on each side bolster of the seat and his head was cocked sideways touching the roof... Nat had a real concerned look on his face as we attempted to belt John in the car that now weighted 4000#, John looked at him and said, "hey look at it this way, we will be fastest on all the right hand corners" hahahah


Back to Oly-MA, I predict Heavy D in the M3 will school everyone, he can drive.

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heymagic

At the end of the day it is Charles' build, Charles' choice. The prize money is the same with either engine....

Now that's the truth.
It's just Charles has done a couple of other morphodite deals: MR2 and whatever the Subie thing was. (FWD? RWD?) and When he called to order JVAB soooooper Bitcjhin suspenders he was way jazzed up how well the STOCK POS n.a. thing worked--N.A. with no poop, nop gearing, no brakes, no LSD, no tires.

And that the "secret" of the 240: very well balanced car----nothing "bad".
And nothing BAD is pretty good.

I've always said regarding engines "squeeze out what you can from whatevers there BEFORE thinking of either big power build ups or big swaps".

So if he was tickled pink with pooopy lil ol n.a. powered, all wrong Volvo, IF he listened to himself ----not me, but himself---- how tickled would he be with 'more of same'?

The rule which we should always carve into granite and hang above the wall is a queestion to be applied to everything we do:
What ADVANTAGE will_________________________ give me (versus 'that".

A V8 offers no advantages at all---versus a turbo 8v B23.

And yeah weeeeze just talking, nothing else going on.

Well shit I gotta go weld some ears onto strut tubes, so you guys carry on..

Oh! Yeah! Have you all read about "The NEXT Big thing to save rally?"
This next big thing is gonna save rally waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the last Big thing saved rally...!!!!

ALL the details are on Ander's thread in "Viscous Rumors"