WRC Sweden---and Swedish Championship---especially Grupp H

Some of you guys know I encourage people to build simple strong 2wd cars to play rally and push hard the excellent 240 Volvo and the Merkur XR4Ti aka Xratty, both with easy to drive 2300 SOHC turbo motors since they work so well.

I have said many times that the Swedish GpH and Finnish F-Cup cars, both which require normal aspirated, are very fast, indeed much faster than the fastest North American drivers.

Many in the sport take heaps of personal offense at me saying that, only gawd knows why.

ALL those taking offense are boys who have never been anywhere else in the world, mostly only semi-literate in English only, and generally stupid and with stupidity comes invariably laziness.

Well new formula in WRC, new season.
The cars are now little econo-sheet box size ie MkII Golf or new Ford Fiesta size rather than say Subie GC8 Impreza or Focus (103" wheelbase) and they now have a 1,6 turbo

Well Swedish round is always a favorite world wide (if they have snow and it's cold) and this year the conditions are perfect: lots of snow, and cold ground so the studs work

Imagine my giggles when I see the times for the 2wd guys running in the Swedish Championship event run in conjunction with the World Championship

Here's a link to WRC times--and some times---pardon the formatting problems---maybe somebody can tell me how you make them presentable.
http://www.wrc.com/results/2011/rally-sweden/stage-times/?category=wrc&stageno=2

SS2
SS2 Vargasen 1 (24.63km)



About this table


This table shows both stage times (the left half) and the effect on the overall standings (on the right).
Stage information:
Pos: Position
No: Car number
Time: Time taken to complete the special stage. Shown as hour:minute:second:tenth
Diff Prev: Time difference between the driver and the one immediately ahead in the stage standings
Diff 1st: Time difference between the driver and the one who was quickest through the stage
Overall information:
Pos: Position
No: Car number
Driver: Suffixes show those eligible to score points in the (J)WRC, (S)WRC, (P)WRC or (M)anufacturers' championship
Time: Accumulated time to complete the special stages so far. Shown as hour:minute:second:tenth
Diff Prev: Time difference between the driver and the one immediately ahead in the overall standings after the stage
Diff 1st: Time difference between the driver and the one leading the overall standings after the stage

Stage Time
Pos No Driver Time Diff Prev Diff

1st
1. 6 M. ØSTBERG 14:41.9 0.0 0.0
2. 3 M. HIRVONEN 14:42.9 +1.0 +1.0
3. 4 J. LATVALA 14:57.2 +14.3 +15.3
4. 11 P. SOLBERG 15:00.0 +2.8 +18.1
5. 2 S. OGIER 15:18.1 +18.1 +36.2
6. 18 P. SANDELL 15:19.6 +1.5 +37.7
7. 1 S. LOEB 15:24.5 +4.9 +42.6
8. 5 H. SOLBERG 15:24.6 +0.1 +42.7
9. 20 E. BRYNILDSEN 15:26.0 +1.4 +44.1
10. 19 M. PROKOP 15:32.9 +6.9 +51.0
11. 9 D. KUIPERS 15:35.4 +2.5 +53.5
12. 10 K. AL QASSIMI 15:45.0 +9.6 +1:03.1
13. 8 K. RÄIKKONEN 15:47.6 +2.6 +1:05.7
14. 16 P. ANDERSSON 15:48.0 +0.4 +1:06.1
15. 24 A. GRØNDAL 15:56.6 +8.6 +1:14.7
16. 26 M. SEMERAD 16:04.8 +8.2 +1:22.9
17. 43 K. BLOCK 16:20.4 +15.6 +1:38.5
18. 15 M. WILSON 16:26.6 +6.2 +1:44.7
19. 33 D. TAGIROV 16:31.8 +5.2 +1:49.9
20. 34 Y. PROTASOV 16:35.7 +3.9 +1:53.8


Overall
Pos No Driver Time Diff
Prev Diff
1st
1. 6 M. ØSTBERG M 16:23.2 0.0 0.0
2. 3 M. HIRVONEN M 16:23.6 +0.4 +0.4
3. 4 J. LATVALA M 16:37.5 +13.9 +14.3
4. 11 P. SOLBERG 16:40.6 +3.1 +17.4
5. 2 S. OGIER M 17:00.1 +19.5 +36.9
6. 1 S. LOEB M 17:05.3 +5.2 +42.1
7. 18 P. SANDELL 17:05.5 +0.2 +42.3
8. 20 E. BRYNILDSEN 17:12.2 +6.7 +49.0
9. 5 H. SOLBERG M 17:18.9 +6.7 +55.7
10. 9 D. KUIPERS M 17:21.4 +2.5 +58.2
11. 19 M. PROKOP 17:25.7 +4.3 +1:02.5
12. 16 P. ANDERSSON 17:27.7 +2.0 +1:04.5
13. 8 K. RÄIKKONEN M 17:33.4 +5.7 +1:10.2
14. 10 K. AL QASSIMI 17:36.1 +2.7 +1:12.9
15. 24 A. GRØNDAL P 17:42.2 +6.1 +1:19.0
16. 26 M. SEMERAD P 17:54.1 +11.9 +1:30.9
17. 43 K. BLOCK M 18:09.0 +14.9 +1:45.8ops:
18. 15 M. WILSON 18:13.9 +4.9 +1:50.7
19. 34 Y. PROTASOV P 18:22.4 +8.5 +1:59.2
20. 33 D. TAGIROV P 18:22.8 +0.4 +1:59.6

Now here's the times for the ordinary guys in 2wd cars: Fastest SS times highlighted


2011-02-11 Rally Sweden SM Unofficial
Class results Trimmat 2WD 24 starting
Pos No Dc Driver/CO-Driver Club Make SS 2/SS 9--SS 3/SS 10--SS 4/SS 11 --SS 8/SS 16 --Pen/Total --Diff P/L
1 146 A Martin Berglund SMK Gävle VW 16:16,9 13:15, 12:24,8 mg:
Håkan Palm Björnjägarns RC Golf 41:57,3

2 147 A Peter Zachrisson Säffle MC Volvo 16:09,9 ogle: 13:28,12:45,1 :wtf:
Jan Svanström Säffle MC 940 42:23,7
Entrant: Assistancekåren 020-912912

3 145 A Tobias Söderqvist AMF Årsunda Toyota 16:42,4 13:24 12:34,7
Joakim Söderqvist AMF Årsunda Corolla 42:41,4
Entrant: Tractive AB

4 150 A J. Johansson MK Ran Askersund Toyota 16:29,0 13:34, 12:56,4
Martin Holmdahl MK Ran Askersund Corolla 43:00,3

5 148 A Johan Carlsson Degerfors RC Toyota 16:30,0 13:49,6 12:54,0
Johan Lövgren Degerfors RC Corolla 43:13,6

6 153 A Jan Johansson Fryksdalens MK Toyota 16:43,6 13:43,6 12:52,1
Krister Gull Corolla 43:19,3

7 151 A Magnus Henriksson SMK Linde Suzuki 16:37,4 13:47,3 12:55,6
Staffan Lindberg Skepptuna MK Ignis Super 1600 43:20,3

8 152 A Daniel Ernstedt Nollåtta MK SEAT 16:54,9 13:57,2 13:03,9
Joel Ardell Norrköpings MK Ibiza 43:56,0

9 164 A Hans-Ã…ke Stensvik MK Rimo Volvo 16:47,0 14:07,6 13:26,7
HÃ¥kan Jansson MK Rimo 240 44:21,3
Entrant: A.Jansson o son skogsmaskiner

10 173 B Niklas Karlsson Värmdö MK Volvo 17:03,4 13:52,8 13:44,2
Andreas Johansson Eskilstuna MK 940 44:40,4

Here's SS3 for WRC, look back up for the 2wd local guys
SS3 Likenas 1 (20.78km)

Stage 3
Pos No Driver Time Diff
Prev Diff
1st
1. 16 P. ANDERSSON 12:10.1 0.0 0.0
2. 6 M. ØSTBERG 12:11.1 +1.0 +1.0
3. 2 S. OGIER 12:18.4 +7.3 +8.3
4. 3 M. HIRVONEN 12:19.8 +1.4 +9.7
5. 11 P. SOLBERG 12:21.2 +1.4 +11.1
6. 4 J. LATVALA 12:29.2 +8.0 +19.1
7. 5 H. SOLBERG 12:31.8 +2.6 +21.7
8. 18 P. SANDELL 12:31.9 +0.1 +21.8
9. 1 S. LOEB 12:38.1 +6.2 +28.0
10. 20 E. BRYNILDSEN 12:39.7 +1.6 +29.6
11. 8 K. RÄIKKONEN 12:40.3 +0.6 +30.2
12. 24 A. GRØNDAL 12:41.7 +1.4 +31.6
13. 21 P. FLODIN 12:42.1 +0.4 +32.0
14. 19 M. PROKOP 12:44.1 +2.0 +34.0
15. 10 K. AL QASSIMI 12:48.8 +4.7 +38.7
16. 43 K. BLOCK 13:01.0 +12.2 +50.9ops:
17. 51 C. BREEN 13:05.6 +4.6 +55.5
18. 53 A. LAIVOLA 13:07.3 +1.7 +57.2
19. 26 M. SEMERAD 13:12.4 +5.1 +1:02.3
20. 33 D. TAGIROV 13:13.0 +0.6 +1:02.9

Overall thru SS3
Pos No Driver Time Diff
Prev Diff
1st
1. 6 M. ØSTBERG M 28:34.3 0.0 0.0
2. 3 M. HIRVONEN M 28:43.4 +9.1 +9.1
3. 11 P. SOLBERG 29:01.8 +18.4 +27.5
4. 4 J. LATVALA M 29:06.7 +4.9 +32.4
5. 2 S. OGIER M 29:18.5 +11.8 +44.2
6. 18 P. SANDELL 29:37.4 +18.9 +1:03.1
7. 16 P. ANDERSSON 29:37.8 +0.4 +1:03.5
8. 1 S. LOEB M 29:43.4 +5.6 +1:09.1
9. 5 H. SOLBERG M 29:50.7 +7.3 +1:16.4
10. 20 E. BRYNILDSEN 29:51.9 +1.2 +1:17.6
11. 19 M. PROKOP 30:09.8 +17.9 +1:35.5
12. 8 K. RÄIKKONEN M 30:13.7 +3.9 +1:39.4
13. 24 A. GRØNDAL P 30:23.9 +10.2 +1:49.6
14. 10 K. AL QASSIMI 30:24.9 +1.0 +1:50.6
15. 9 D. KUIPERS M 30:40.6 +15.7 +2:06.3
16. 26 M. SEMERAD P 31:06.5 +25.9 +2:32.2
17. 43 K. BLOCK M 31:10.0 +3.5 +2:35.7
18. 21 P. FLODIN P 31:21.5 +11.5 +2:47.2
19. 15 M. WILSON 31:31.7 +10.2 +2:57.4
20. 33 D. TAGIROV P 31:35.8 +4.1 +3:01.5


SS4
SS4 Lovhaugen 1 (19.26km)

Stage4
Pos No Driver Time Diff
Prev Diff
1st
1. 6 M. ØSTBERG 11:36.5 0.0 0.0
2. 5 H. SOLBERG 11:41.5 +5.0 +5.0
3. 20 E. BRYNILDSEN 11:46.0 +4.5 +9.5
4. 3 M. HIRVONEN 11:52.2 +6.2 +15.7
5. 18 P. SANDELL 11:53.4 +1.2 +16.9
6. 11 P. SOLBERG 11:54.6 +1.2 +18.1
7. 51 C. BREEN 12:00.4 +5.8 +23.9
8. 24 A. GRØNDAL 12:01.0 +0.6 +24.5
9. 8 K. RÄIKKONEN 12:05.9 +4.9 +29.4
10. 21 P. FLODIN 12:06.1 +0.2 +29.6
11. 19 M. PROKOP 12:07.3 +1.2 +30.8
12. 10 K. AL QASSIMI 12:13.5 +6.2 +37.0
13. 1 S. LOEB 12:14.1 +0.6 +37.6
14. 4 J. LATVALA 12:23.9 +9.8 +47.4
15. 2 S. OGIER 12:27.3 +3.4 +50.8
16. 33 D. TAGIROV 12:27.4 +0.1 +50.9
17. 9 D. KUIPERS 12:28.6 +1.2 +52.1
18. 26 M. SEMERAD 12:39.2 +10.6 +1:02.7
19. 15 M. WILSON 12:42.0 +2.8 +1:05.5
20. 43 K. BLOCK 12:43.3 +1.3 +1:06.8ops:

Overall
Pos No Driver Time Diff
Prev Diff
1st
1. 6 M. ØSTBERG M 40:10.8 0.0 0.0
2. 3 M. HIRVONEN M 40:35.6 +24.8 +24.8
3. 11 P. SOLBERG 40:56.4 +20.8 +45.6
4. 4 J. LATVALA M 41:30.6 +34.2 +1:19.8
5. 18 P. SANDELL 41:30.8 +0.2 +1:20.0
6. 5 H. SOLBERG M 41:32.2 +1.4 +1:21.4
7. 20 E. BRYNILDSEN 41:37.9 +5.7 +1:27.1
8. 2 S. OGIER M 41:45.8 +7.9 +1:35.0
9. 1 S. LOEB M 41:57.5 +11.7 +1:46.7
10. 19 M. PROKOP 42:17.1 +19.6 +2:06.3
11. 8 K. RÄIKKONEN M 42:19.6 +2.5 +2:08.8
12. 24 A. GRØNDAL P 42:24.9 +5.3 +2:14.1
13. 10 K. AL QASSIMI 42:38.4 +13.5 +2:27.6
14. 9 D. KUIPERS M 43:09.2 +30.8 +2:58.4
15. 21 P. FLODIN P 43:27.6 +18.4 +3:16.8
16. 26 M. SEMERAD P 43:45.7 +18.1 +3:34.9
17. 43 K. BLOCK M 43:53.3 +7.6 +3:42.5
18. 33 D. TAGIROV P 44:03.2 +9.9 +3:52.4
19. 15 M. WILSON 44:13.7 +10.5 +4:02.9
20. 34 Y. PROTASOV P 44:26.3 +12.6 +4:15.5


Look at some of the 2wd fastest times....Those guys are faster than the highlighted WRC car---which is arguably the guy with most (recent) International experience in rally---and in a works Ford Fiesta.

In a Golf, and a Volvo--on snow.

Now heaven forfend we look at National Class for 4wd cars.........

wanna see?


So, build those damn cars boys and you too can beat Block, even if he's in a works car...
Just remember Friedrich der Grosse great line;
Kerls, wollt ihr denn ewig leben?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2011 10:31PM by john vanlandingham.

so the Golf made 56th fastest time in stage 3? and you fault the golf? you should be careful what you link John....

That is pretty cool though. A NA Volvo making top 10 WRC times. I bet studs on snow negate the 4wd advantage.

I also bet some local knowledge/experience helps as well, but that's not to say the locals in 2wd aren't talented. Still, the WRC machinery should (in theory) DESTROY anything else.

Quote
phlat65
so the Golf made 56th fastest time in stage 3? and you fault the golf? you should be careful what you link John....

That is pretty cool though. A NA Volvo making top 10 WRC times. I bet studs on snow negate the 4wd advantage.

I only plugged in the 2wd guys into the WRC times.

And doood, the 4wd guys have brand new shiney studs too, and another 5-7" travel.
And huge service crews...

Didya peak at National 4wd times?
Mats Jonsson in Stig Blomqvist's old Escort Cosworth World rally car from 1998---check his times, a gas station owner and shop built car, a design basically ancient--

That's interesting John! But, did anyone honestly think the new WRC cars were going to be especially fast though?

I agree with you that just because it's new, doesn't mean it's THE thing to rally.

a handful of opinions, observations, and assorted blathering-ons:

* with the fresh snow, running order made a huge difference in the times IMO. First pass through the stages, 13-something WRC cars running first, and the S2000 cars (running after them all, I believe) are "easily" in the top 10 stage times. Second pass through, and the S2000's are just knocking on top 10, just like last year. Assuming the Swedish Nat'l guys are running after all the International entries.

* During the 2011 Monte Carlo coverage, they did a 'simulcam' thing where they overlaid synchronized video of different cars. They did one segment with P.Solberg (1st competition in S2000 car) and J.Hanninen (2010 IRC champ) - long straight, rev limiter in 6th into a R3. The amount of speed Solberg gave up in the R3 was huge - IIRC, just on the corner exit, Hanninen was a full car length ahead. After ~100 yards, another full car length between them. It seems like the previous WRC spec cars (and probably the [lack of] depth of competition at the top of the field) bred some bad habits? Swedish National guys are probably used to scrapping for seconds on every stage, and having to carry as much speed as possible (regardless of whether they have 500+ ft/lbs) through every corner.

Definitely embarrassing for KB, but in the end probably more so for the 'top level' factory teams.

Wait, did you really link all of this to prove that a new driver in a new wrc car on new roads is slower or as fast or whatever you want to call it as 2WD drivers who have driven that rally and those conditions before probably in the same car?


Really?

Quote
Dazed_Driver
Wait, did you really link all of this to prove that a new driver in a new wrc car on new roads is slower or as fast or whatever you want to call it as 2WD drivers who have driven that rally and those conditions before probably in the same car?


Really?

I was something to do exactly as I said to ENCOURAGE people who are either running their cars or nearing completion so they can actually drive their cars.


Was that not clear?

You see the way adults sort things out is by what's called "compare and conrast". So we have to have something to compare to and contrast against.

That is if we don't want to be a know nothing, whining, flake, merely blabbering unfounded assertions.

It was not addressed to you.
You will never do an event.

So then why not compare against drivers who have equal time running WRC sweden? Or at least, more then once.

Seems kinda like a loaded comparison...

Timm, your argument is kinda fucked by your inability to use the correct words...

Would you rather have a beer then give John a blow job?
Would you rather have a beer than give John a blow job?

---

SteveL
This is the point in the killing spree when you really should turn the gun on yourself

Are you seriously pulling the grammar card?

Fine then, "Would you rather have a beer than give John a blow job?" is incorrect.


It should read "Would you rather have a beer or give John a blow job?" The 'or' defines choice. You're asking me a question. You could have written it as "Wouldn't you rather have a beer than give John a blow job?" But again, you need that to be 'wouldn't' not 'would.'


Than IS a comparison, yes, but you used it improperly...


*rolls eyes*

Let me illustrate this point in a way John can understand.



John, lets go race dirt bikes. You take your old 1970 whatever year it was dirt bike and I'll take a brand new yz250f.

Who's gonna win? I have a newer bike. Oh wait, I've ridden a dirt bike... um.... 4 times? John will win. He used to race dirt bikes. I will be no match. He'll probably lap me.

Would you expect anything different because I went out and bought a NEW bike?

Quote
hudson
That's interesting John! But, did anyone honestly think the new WRC cars were going to be especially fast though?

Citroen said that in tarmac spec the new car was already quicker that the C4.

Also no Meeke or Sordo? when does the mini release.

They released this video from their test facility, looks kind of good in motion.
Facebook link to prodrive mini
Unfortunately they only posted it to facebook.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2011 04:24AM by Sean Edwards.

Cool to see the times and they are impressive regardless, but another possible apple to oranges thing doesn't 2wd still use the narrow snow tire while WRC uses the wider spec tire which the general consensus is that it's slower than the narrow tire particularly when dealing with loose snow which is what all the front runners were dealing with?

Quote
Aaron Luptak
Definitely embarrassing for KB, but in the end probably more so for the 'top level' factory teams.

It must be downright humiliating for Matthew Wilson then who has done more than zero snow rallies with studs and had the most drive time on the Fiesta before Sweden. This was more a love to hate on Wilson than defend KB statement.