newb from st. louis w/mustang II

new to this forum, and the subject line is not a typo. i have a 1974 mustang II. the forgotten pony. it is a roller right now with a really straight body, almost no rust, was a v6 auto car, probably going with a 302 with a t5 trans. should be a sidewinder on the gravel, but that's the idea. i've rallied with a FWD and wanted the challenge of a RWD...and after reading about mark utecht's success in v8 RWD fox's, i was pretty stoked that someone else had rallied such an unconventional setup. plus, i may have the first mustang II rally car. i've googled the piss out of it and can't find any record of one; plenty of dirt oval track stuff though. i've attached a pic of the car; kind of shitty one though, taken with my phone when i first got it.

rally experience: used to race an '86 civic hatch in the st. louis scca rallyx program; won PF class in '08, sold that ride to buy the mustang II and have just been sitting on it for a year now due to lack of funds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2011 01:10AM by greenmachine.

Do you have the original bell housing and flywheel for your M2?? You realize they
are different than any other SBFord... Right?

You should probably go with something a bit lighter to be honest. Like a early/mid 70s Capri...

---

SteveL
This is the point in the killing spree when you really should turn the gun on yourself

i don't have the original II bell housing but have done some research on mustangII.net forums and decided to go with a 94-95 bell and t5. the bell is the most similar to the II and requires the least header and tunnel mods to fit. plus i then get access to 10.5" clutches; the II clutch is a weak 9".

capri's are even harder to come by than this car. i'll still be lighter than a new mustang and they rallied those!

Awesome!
Me personally, I would build a fire breathing duratec 2.3 in NA trim. That would also allow you to compete in G2 which as a novice in RA you will be restricted to unless your previous experience will get you a waiver.

Chassi wise those car are politely described as a massive steaming pile of maggot infested runny horse manure. Or pony manure.
It's best points are
A) weak
flexible
C) since the were universally recognized as a turd, 99.9% have either washed back out to sea in the form of a brown stain, or crushed the moment they hit the yards.
hence
D) rare, like combined syphilis and gonorrhea spontaneously breaking out on a 38 year old virgin from Reggio Calabria.

That's the whole car, moving to any specific part you have a repeat of the weak, poor function, flex, rare thing.

Windshields....when this flexy ill handling pile rotates around suddenly in the middle of a corner and you kiss an inside bank and you ever so gently roll, and crack a windshield, whaddya gonna do?


I suspect that you are suffering from the widespread disease that gives rise to fevers and hallucinations and somehow think that some comments from some folks you have never met that "Oh that's cool" and worse "Oh thats unique.

I say that from your comments about "I googled and din't see any"
There's dozens of reasons---Every race and rally result in human history is not on-line is first and primary.
Maybe most people thought and correctly concluded it is a short vile weak POS.


The main thing that anybody choosing any car for any purpose that they should ask is:

"What advantage does this car offer versus other cars"

Well, (uniqueness does not count as anything but a mental illness and a major misunderstanding of what cars generally and rally specifically is about)
what possible advantage does the glorified Pinto have in any area?

And no the V8 is no advantage---its a weight and power curve and balance liability.

And you could do something really unique:
DRIVE REALLY FAST, quicker than anybody else.

Welcome aboard Mike! The beatings will continue until moral improves!

I think that John has covered my sentiments on this car quite well. There is absolutely no good reason to spend another second on that idea. Your old Civic will kill this thing in every situation other than a straight line on dry pavement and even that could be close.

Besides the performance reasons there are other important issues with the Mustang II. Can you get glass, lenses, body panels and spare shells? If not, what are you going to do when you inevitably break something and can't pass tech? Do not underestimate how important this is!

Rally is difficult enough without having to deal with an odd ball car. In this case common is better!

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Quote
Rallymech

Rally is difficult enough without having to deal with an odd ball car. In this case common is better!

Yep. Just this past weekend I heard of a competitor who had to scour the parking lot looking for a similar car, because they were the only entry w/ their model, and the local parts store had to order what they needed.

Luckily they found a fan who loaned them the parts off of his car to get them on stage. Unfortunately, it didn't fix their issue and they still DNF, but they never would have made the start otherwise.

Just get a common car, then drive it so fast that people question your sanity.

My friend and I rally a '63 SAAB because we love it and enjoy the challenge of running it in Historic class.

Do NOT fall into the trap of thinking you will successfully be able to campaign an oddball car with subpar suspension and hard to find body parts.

The only place I can recall the Mustang II or the Pinto being raced successfully was in econo circle track classes before they allowed the FWD cars. And those took a lot of prep.

holy shit john. II's don't even get ragged on this bad on classic mustang forums. have you ever owned one? or just heard the shit-talking that surrounds them and are regurgitating it? i read a lot of comparisons to feces and diseases, but not a lot of tech talk about them other than "flexing". all the shitty components are products of the time, like HP killing emissions stuff. maybe you should read up from the people who actually own them and race them. and besides that, i'm not under the impression that a v8 will actually be better. i never stated that.

i think it's a good car for racing, although not typically used for rally. i've talked to several people who have road raced and autoxed them and they don't complain about flexibility of the chassis. they also say that the II front suspension is some of the best stang suspension made, just too mushy from the factory. that's why they sell mustang II front suspension kits that are applicable to many cars.

rallymech & modernbeat, they still sell a lot of parts for the II at parts stores. and almost every body panel in fiberglass. also, with an updated drivetrain i will have access to more parts, and some parts are common to fox bodies & other fords.

and john, i don't think this car is unique because someone told me it was. NO ONE LIKES THESE CARS. i thought it was unique all by myself, for which you are more than welcome to call me a fucking idiot. i've heard it before.

phlat65, i guess G2 has an engine size restriction? i wasn't aware of that, but it's been a while since i browsed the rules.

Mike, don't take offense to Johns rant. He is interested in people building and rallying cars that are fun, maintainable, and upgradable. Some people disagree with him on the best recipe to meet that goal, but there is truth in what he says. I would suggest that if you really love the II that you keep it as a street car. Then buy a Volvo 240 for cheap and rally that. There are still lots around. They are tough. They are cheap to buy. They are successful at rally. A few simple things and you're on the stage.... probably driving a car with more capability than the II would ever have. And you're in a car that can be upgraded as you go to an even higher level.
I started rallying in 04 with an Eagle Talon. A way better, faster, and more common car than that mustang. Despite that the car had so many built in limitations that I was glad to be rid of it.
So much of car buying and modifying and racing is emotional. Everyone falls into that trap. I wanted to be part of the Open Class crowd. but why? Rally is supposed to be fun, so why make an emotional decision to rally a car that is certainly going to be much less fun to rally? The rally car is a tool. Working on it can be fun and fulfilling, but no matter what car you choose you're going to work on it a lot, and be fulfilled while overcoming obstacles (rebuilding suspension at night in the rain in order to continue the next day etc).
Whatever you choose to do we all wish you the best luck of course!

I feel that someone needs to offer a positive comment so here goes. That's a damn fine 24 Hours of Lemons car you have there

You have to know John to appreciate John - so don't get too wound up.....

As far as advice - solve your lack of funds first - you'll never be able to rally if you have to sit on a car because you have no cash flow. My advice:
1) Sell Mustang 2
2) Put proceeds in "rally" bank account
3) add to account until you can afford to buy/build a somewhat competitive car
4) Get car, get logbook, get safety equipment
4) add more funds to account
5) deplete account going to events with the satisfaction that you can actually compete against the VWs, Neons, etc

Mike,

John isn't ragging on you, he is giving you advice. The alternative to taking advice is learning the hard way. John works hard to help the sport grow, and there is nothing worse for the sport than people building a car, either not getting it done, or getting it together for one race, running into all kinds of problems, then hating it and telling everyone how much rally sux.


Read the rules for NASA and Rally America, or Rally Car, or Rally Yo Mama or whatever they call it these days. The later requires you start in a G2, so check which are your local races and maybe start searching for a nice pinto motor, unless you a mechanical genius and can do a duratech swap.

Mustang II suspension is used for road racing, but I don't think there is a single rallycar with it. Perhaps for a reason?

No one is hating on your pony, we just want you to have a good time.

And you shouldn't rally a car you love, you kind of need to hate it.

I'll rag on the car for you...sell the II to the guy living in his Free Candy van down by the river. It's just a glorified one of these:







It would actually be cool to see some weird old iron on the stages, but most of that stuff is getting too rare to sacrifice it to the tree gods.

If you have a bunch of money and spare parts, you could make something out of the II...but you'd be better off getting a Fox Rustang or a Volvo 240 or an XR4Ti for something RWD that's relatively easy to build and has readily available spares. In the spare body panels/glass department a Fox Rustang would be the best of the three, the XR4 probably the best performance potential, and the Volvo the best compromise.

oh that movie was funny!!

Doctor Flamond: "If they find out you've seen this, your life will be worth less than a truckload of dead rats in a tampon factory"