newb from st. louis w/mustang II

"And you shouldn't rally a car you love, you kind of need to hate it." Now this is good advise!

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

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Rallymech
"And you shouldn't rally a car you love, you kind of need to hate it." Now this is good advise!

words of wisdom!!

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frumby
Mike, don't take offense to Johns rant.

that was not a rant. It was a shining example of extreme restraint, piercing analysis, and cold clear assemsment.

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He is interested in people building and rallying cars that are fun, maintainable, and upgradable.

Only because that has been a central element in what I see those who stay in the sport for 10-15-20+ years do.

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Some people disagree with him

Those who aren't worried if there's just 10-12 entrants at events, who don't concern themselves at the number of people who "get creative" and build some gross, disgusting POS like a Pinto or an Ass-fire, or a MR2, and then throw away the cost of the car, the cost of a weld in cage---what's 1500-3500 bucks of someboy else's money?----the work,, since it's not their work, -----

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on the best recipe to meet that goal, but there is truth in what he says.

As always. When I'm being silly I try and make it pretty obvious...

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I would suggest that if you really love the II that you keep it as a street car. Then buy a Volvo 240 for cheap and rally that. There are still lots around. They are tough. They are cheap to buy. They are successful at rally.

Yep, worldwide the "default car" is still the Ford Mki and MkII Escort because it is simple and well balanced.
The 240 is as simple and as well balanced.
Cheap. Plentiful. Easy power. Stone ax reliable motors (cranks are bigger than Small Block Chevy)

The Volvo 240 should be the default rally car of North America.

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A few simple things and you're on the stage.... probably driving a car with more capability than the II would ever have.

That ain't saying much. Anything almost is better than a heavy slugloid Pinto with ugly sheetmetal.

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And you're in a car that can be upgraded as you go to an even higher level.
I started rallying in 04 with an Eagle Talon. A way better, faster, and more common car than that mustang. Despite that the car had so many built in limitations that I was glad to be rid of it.
So much of car buying and modifying and racing is emotional. Everyone falls into that trap. I wanted to be part of the Open Class crowd. but why? Rally is supposed to be fun, so why make an emotional decision to rally a car that is certainly going to be much less fun to rally? The rally car is a tool. Working on it can be fun and fulfilling, but no matter what car you choose you're going to work on it a lot, and be fulfilled while overcoming obstacles (rebuilding suspension at night in the rain in order to continue the next day etc).
Whatever you choose to do we all wish you the best luck of course!

There has to be a market for the Mustang II - sell it and use the money on something else that is more rallyable.

I've had a lot of fun throwing Rabbits/Golves around in the dirt, and they are a cheap entry.

You can prep a "grassroots car" for $5000 if you are a skinflint, and the reality will be a bit more than that - plan around $7000 - stuff gets expensive. You can purchase that car "prepped" for about half that if you shop.

Here's an old Colt for $2500, which is a lot of fun, but is getting hard to find parts for, especially windshields: http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/2210/cat/13 - will need some updating ($).

RX7 for $4K - a deal - http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/2119/cat/13

Truck for $3K - http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/2023/cat/13 - probably will need some updating.

Etc.

John is fine - you are just getting some "tough love."

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alkun
Mike,

John isn't ragging on you, he is giving you advice.

Specifically advice on THE CAR


Subject is car....

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The alternative to taking advice is learning the hard way. John works hard to help the sport grow, and there is nothing worse for the sport than people building a car, either not getting it done, or getting it together for one race, running into all kinds of problems, then hating it and telling everyone how much rally sux.

Amen Brother Kun, Amen!

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Mustang II suspension is used for road racing, but I don't think there is a single rallycar with it. Perhaps for a reason?

Phew! "Roadracing" by who, what class , how many competitiors, , how do they do compare with a Nowigotch 1000 3 cyl?
Roadracing, bring me a bucket, I'm gonna vomit.

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No one is hating on your pony, we just want you to have a good time.

And you shouldn't rally a car you love, you kind of need to hate it.

Right, nobody has said "Burn the thing ( cause you can't cause shit's too wet to light off without a lot of NAPALM!!!!)

They're just saying it's making self-imposed problems for no good reason.


Seriously now I am addressing you (so far I have spoken gently and thoughtfully about the car):
WHAT ADVANTAGE does this car have over____________________.

Rally is in the end about trying to beat the times of other dudes, and dudettes, ultimately......

Why not a 76 El Dorado?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2011 04:51PM by john vanlandingham.

john, literally there is no advantage this car has over any other car. i know that. i was just trying to get some "weird old iron on the stages" as fiasco put it. i don't know about you guys, but after i see about a dozen subarus go by, i am really excited to see something old and different. so naturally i'm excited at the prospect of building and driving something like that, even though i know it will ultimately be more of a headache than something newer, more common, or more reliable. call this a mistake, or a mental affliction, or whatever you want.

i didn't join this forum to have my car choice insulted. i may not prefer any of your rides, but i'm not going to tell you that because its your choice. example: i think the neon is one of the shittiest cars ever made and i wouldn't put a dime into it. that's my opinion though; and if someone asked a question about neon modifications, rules, parts, etc i would try to help if i had the knowledge instead of saying "your car is a piece of shit and you should forget about it". if john is trying to help the sport grow, he has a strange way of doing so.

i came for info and help on rallying this someday, so i appreciate those of you who had helpful comments on classing like alkun...and yes tim, i have thought about the 24 hrs of lemons, but i think the limit is $500 and i've already exceeded that.

also, i think some of the sport IS the cars, not just "beating the times of other dudes". i mean, isn't that why the historic class exists?

People rally trucks too, just to be different. So ironically, you're not alone, haha.


It's your money, and if you have more fun in a mustang, then do it.

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greenmachine
i didn't join this forum to have my car choice insulted. i may not prefer any of your rides, but i'm not going to tell you that because its your choice. example: i think the neon is one of the shittiest cars ever made and i wouldn't put a dime into it. that's my opinion though; and if someone asked a question about neon modifications, rules, parts, etc i would try to help if i had the knowledge instead of saying "your car is a piece of shit and you should forget about it".

um...... that is why this is Rally Anarchy. Everything goes here.

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greenmachine

if john is trying to help the sport grow, he has a strange way of doing so.

Hell yes he is. It does not help the sport if you waste tons of money on the wrong car and DNF on your first stage due to a flaw with the base car. Then since you spent all your money on trick custom parts (since there are no cheap easy to find reliable parts for your "exotic" car) you don't have the money to continue with it.

The idea is start with the right car. It will be cheaper to build, maintain and rally. Then the most important part: the car can grow with you as you progress in the sport.

Being thick headed doesn't make you smarter. Heed the warning of the "elders". They know what they are talking about.

I'll tell you this - I wouldn't have chosen a Golf if I were to do it again today. While it is a good overall car. There are better choices.

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-Jason



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2011 12:10AM by mack73.

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Dazed_Driver
People rally trucks too, just to be different. So ironically, you're not alone, haha.


It's your money, and if you have more fun in a mustang, then do it.

Like I said, those that say that don't care if you waste thousands of dollars building something that will be vile.
of course they don't care because some live at home and only tinker on the car when daddy does the work....and have no worries what anything costs....

Hey dude, want me to find you some videos of how people in other parts of the world go vintage rallying?

They just having fun, too.

there's just one more thing though I'm just having trouble with, maybe you can help me understand,....

I never knew that a car that worked good and was competitive somehow detracted from the fun a person could have.....if fact what I've seen there's seems to be a strong correlation to how good a car works and how much what should we call it, yeah "deeper satisfaction' they have which helps to 'sustain ' them thru the build and the inevitable rebuilds and repair from normal wear and tear....

maybe you could explain it to me how that works....

I would just like to add that you wouldn't be the first to rally a Mustang II. J.C. Montaron up in Alberta rallied one back in the late 80's until he rolled it into a little ball at the Rocky Mountain Rally. After that he got smart and ran a 510. There were probably others in the U.S. back in the day.

I believe I detect a hint of that Missouri "Show Me" attitude in the choice of car. However I would contact Rob Wright in regards to caging your car, he's the local R-A tech guy and then Scott at Izzy's Custom Cages, since both of them are local to you. Heh, Mustang II, at least the St. Louis rally car collection will be eclectic. What with a Saab, a VW Bug, a Mk II Golf and & an open light Scoobie.

With that being said, what did you see at the recent Rally in the 100 Acre Wood? You saw a VW bug, an early 80's Volvo, and a Rabbit/Golf. All three of these chassis' have been rallied numerous times around the world in years past.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2011 06:47AM by Vorpal_Rally.

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john vanlandingham

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Dazed_Driver
People rally trucks too, just to be different. So ironically, you're not alone, haha.


It's your money, and if you have more fun in a mustang, then do it.

Like I said, those that say that don't care if you waste thousands of dollars building something that will be vile.
of course they don't care because some live at home and only tinker on the car when daddy does the work....and have no worries what anything costs....

Stop being immature and grow up. This isn't about me.

Mike,

The thing that you need to keep in mine here is that all of these comments are intended to:

1. Get you into a rally in the least amount of time.
2. Keep you in the sport for the most amount of time.
3 Accomplish the first two tasks for the least amount of money.
4. Prevent you from pulling your hair out in frustration.

I think that you are seriously underestimating the difficulty of the game that you want to play. From some of your comments it get the impression that you are looking at things from the outside. Who cares what type of cars are on stage as long as YOU ARE IN ONE!

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

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Dazed_Driver

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john vanlandingham

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Dazed_Driver
People rally trucks too, just to be different. So ironically, you're not alone, haha.


It's your money, and if you have more fun in a mustang, then do it.

Like I said, those that say that don't care if you waste thousands of dollars building something that will be vile.
of course they don't care because some live at home and only tinker on the car when daddy does the work....and have no worries what anything costs....

Stop being immature and grow up. This isn't about me.

I know child, but since any time you write or speak, misinformation gushes forth, the poor guy needs some context to who and what you are.

In fact a kid who has with full access to everything needed including spare time and no rent and has taken 5 years or whatever to NOT finish his "project", epitomizes the very height of immaturity. the pinnacle, ne plus ultra, the alpha and the omega of unaware childishness any time he advises others on anything.

Put more clearly:shut the fuck up Timmay---don't advise others on anything---go finish your car.