So you paid more than $500 for a '74 Mustang II with no drive-train Can we get you into a 12 step program...

yes, $600. despite the fact that no one likes them, for those of us who DO, they are getting quite hard to find. i just searched st. louis craigslist and there are none. typically when i find them, the exterior is very rusty (especially the rear hatch, which leads to the rear floor rusting out) and the interior is crap. this one has a totally original pea green interior (which i love), no rips in the seats, and almost no rust on the whole body and chassis minus a few spots behind the rear wheels.

so i think it was worth it.

i'd rather start with a good chassis with no drivetrain, instead of one that runs but needs tons of rust repair.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2011 11:52PM by greenmachine.

I just don't get why people with no rally experience constantly come up with crazy ideas about building some old pile of $hit (<---- note the $ sign) into their first rally car. No wonder the sport is so fucked over here.

thanks tom! join the mustang II haters club!



so in light of the fact that i don't hate the mustang II and i'm leaning towards something i'm not afraid to break...i was offered a car for free by my boss (i work at a small foreign car shop), a late 80's (not sure of the year) bmw 325i 4 door. it's in pretty rough shape right now; it's been a parts car so it has no hood, windshield, and is missing a few mechanical parts. engine and tranny are intact, but i'm not sure of their state. the body and floor pan are relatively rust free. i need to get some more details on it, but does it sound like a worthy starting point?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2011 01:26AM by greenmachine.

Parts are at least plentiful, albeit apparently a bit pricey for what they are on your side of the pond.
Also, for the almost all-gravel stages that you have in the US, it does lack a bit on the suspension travel part - especially in the rear.

But it can be made to work, and with less work than the Mooh-stang :-).

But again: the shell is by FAR the least of you costs in prepping a car for stage rally... so don't be too hung up on "getting a free shell".

Cage will be +1000$ anyway I believe, seats another 800-1000$, etc. and that is regardless of which car you get as a start point.

---

Brgrds
Brian

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wildert
Parts are at least plentiful, albeit apparently a bit pricey for what they are on your side of the pond.
Also, for the almost all-gravel stages that you have in the US, it does lack a bit on the suspension travel part - especially in the rear.

But it can be made to work, and with less work than the Mooh-stang :-).

But again: the shell is by FAR the least of you costs in prepping a car for stage rally... so don't be too hung up on "getting a free shell".

Cage will be +1000$ anyway I believe, seats another 800-1000$, etc. and that is regardless of which car you get as a start point.

Yup, a free shell can be the cheapest part of a build and the most expensive error.....

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greenmachine
thanks tom! join the mustang II haters club!



so in light of the fact that i don't hate the mustang II and i'm leaning towards something i'm not afraid to break...i was offered a car for free by my boss (i work at a small foreign car shop), a late 80's (not sure of the year) bmw 325i 4 door. it's in pretty rough shape right now; it's been a parts car so it has no hood, windshield, and is missing a few mechanical parts. engine and tranny are intact, but i'm not sure of their state. the body and floor pan are relatively rust free. i need to get some more details on it, but does it sound like a worthy starting point?

Assuming no major rust, that sounds like a better starting point.

Mike,

The fact that you are listening and able to change your opinion is a huge step forward! If you keep an open mind you will do just fine, in rally and in life.

The BMW is a much better car to rally, but not perfect. John hates them but don't let that stop you. A few people are building 325s. You will still need to blaze some new trail though.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

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Rallymech
Mike,


The BMW is a much better car to rally, but not perfect. John hates them but don't let that stop you. .

John hates the simple fact that everything on a BMW is one or two steps lighter build, smaller in size or thinner gauge relative to other cars similar size and power.

The wheel bearings are smaller. sheetmetal is thinner guage, control arm pivot bolts ssmaller, differential ring gear and pinion weenier, the CVs smaller, the axle shafts like my pinkie, etc

They have excellent 4 cylinder motors, particularly that nice 2,3 l 16v with the Cosworth designed headfrom waaaaaaaaay back in the mid 80s, or the 1900 16v, but for some perverse reason it appears that most have really really looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong 6 cylinder motors.

Now we all know multi cylinder stuff, like multi valve is to some degree about reduced weight of individual components is so as to allow the motor to safely rev HIGH.

But we see loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong inline 6 cranks are known to snake and squirm---everything being equal---compared to a 4 cylinder crank, so I don't HATE inline 6s, I'm just confused why people voluntarily impose known problems on themselves.
As an example Nissan said in their very stout L24 and L26 inline Z car motors that one should "life" a crank at about 25 hours-----if ya revved it all the way to----6500. Oh, baby....

There are some real solid reasons around sizing--and its relation to strength---and that relation to cost for the beginner---that I try so gently and generously and caringly to point beginners in the direction of.
For example, I have already check and found for this poor lost should a couple of the nice, sturdy, well balanced cars that we all know is so much better for a privateer---and there's 2 of them just a short drive from St. Louis.

So Robert, why do you say I hate BMWs?
Hate is an irrational or illogical emotion like we see from your friend in Alberta directed at me; I just don't prefer lightly built stuff---or belive knowing the sizes of those weak parts, that I could honestly suggest that a beginner should saddle themselves with so much work in strengthening, swapping in bigger stuff etc.

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john vanlandingham
Hate is an irrational or illogical emotion like we see from your friend in Alberta directed at me;

I don't hate you John ... I don't even know you so I can't possibly hate you. Truth of the matter is I don't even really care about you at all.
What you perceive as hate is simply someone who doesn't sit back quietly and take the bullying you dish out on a far too regular basis. (and yes, the way you deal with people with differing opinions is CLASSIC bullying)

Bimmers are fun - we've got a few in various forms of prep.

Four door is no penalty, and makes it easier to cage and to have somewhere to put your helmet.

There are some work arounds for the lack of suspension travel.

They are powerful out of the box.

They are RWD.

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Morison

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john vanlandingham
Hate is an irrational or illogical emotion like we see from your friend in Alberta directed at me;

I don't hate you John ... I don't even know you so I can't possibly hate you. Truth of the matter is I don't even really care about you at all.
What you perceive as hate is simply someone who doesn't sit back quietly and take the bullying you dish out on a far too regular basis. (and yes, the way you deal with people with differing opinions is CLASSIC bullying)

Bullying, my ass.
You respond to stuff that does not corncern you, and constantly insult virtually every person on this forum in order to try and insult me, that is in fact what is clearly implied when you shit out of your mouth your "drinking the kool aid" bullshit. That is a highly insulting thing to say to everybody here just because you're on this self-appointed mission you said you were on to prove what a terrible bad person I am.

That is not bullying but it is cowardly lying.



Face it, you're a never was schlub and you are annoyed that anybody will say stuff in print virtually identical what everybody says in conversation.
On this one thread alone at least 7-8 people have said things to the effect "sheeesh, what the fuck is the guy trying to do?"

And further, if you're so mentally challenged that you cannot distinguish the difference between pointing out the huge glaring problems of a particular CAR or PART, and criticism of the PERSON, then you are as stupid as you appear. That was personal criticism. in case you're having problems separating the concepts.

See the difference?
If not go back and study sentence structure in 8th grade...

Go and destroy rally elsewhere, hater.

Greenmachine,

I have lurked here but have never joined until I saw all the distress you were getting over your stang.

I say "BUILD IT!"

If you want to chat about it shoot me an email as I would be more than happy to discuss this car.

I was in the process of building a Fox body Mustang until I landed on a good combination of stuff to build a Mazda 323 GT. (Hatch)

I am also building a 1964 Falcon Sprint to the FIA Homoligation as ran in the 1964 Monte Carlo Rally. This car will be for vintage road racing events.

The best thing I see right here is that you dont have to run any struts. Pick up a catalog from Speedway Motors. You'll have far more to work with than many of the other combinations where folks fight for the correct gear ratios for their tranny or cant get a LS Diff for their particular brand of front driver.


Mark

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john vanlandingham
Bullying, my ass.

Quite funny actually.

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john vanlandingham
... constantly insult virtually every person on this forum in order to try and insult me, that is in fact what is clearly implied when you shit out of your mouth your "drinking the kool aid" bullshit.

Again you resort to saying things about me that are untrue. I don't insult anyone here, not even you! I express differing opinion, speak my mind, call you out when you're being an ass and don't shirk away from you when you have a tantrum.
As for the Kool-Aid - I'm just trying to say that 'Anarchy' would suggest (to me at least) that any an all ideas and opinions would be 'at home' in the forum. That is far from the case - anyone wanting to do sometheing different usually gets an earful from you at one point or another.

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john vanlandingham
That is a highly insulting thing to say to everybody here just because you're on this self-appointed mission you said you were on to prove what a terrible bad person I am.

You're suffering delusions of grandeur once again John. This post you quoted was simply to rebut your assertion that I hate you. I'll grant you that you didn't explicitly say it was me you were talking about ... call it a reasonable guess.

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john vanlandingham
That is not bullying but it is cowardly lying.

Really - what is the lie in what I said?

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john vanlandingham
And further, if you're so mentally challenged that you cannot distinguish the difference between pointing out the huge glaring problems of a particular CAR or PART, and criticism of the PERSON, then you are as stupid as you appear.

Except that I never suggested that you were criticizing anyone.

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john vanlandingham
Go and destroy rally elsewhere, hater.

Classic 'drink the Kool Aid' or go away attitude John. Thanks for helping me illustrate it so well.

Jackass.

Jeeeezus Christ!

Look. This thread exists to discuss the Mustang II and its suitability or lack thereof, and to try to educate someone who has never rallied before. We all know the online personas of Morrison, Timmy, and JVL. Not every barb needs to be retorted to or defended... we know... we've heard it before... we don't need to hear it again to know what each party is thinking.

Rally cross is not rally. It's not even close greenmachine... no comparison. If you want to keep the II don't rally it. I rolled my rally car on my second rally. Finished the rally, and a bunch more with that car, but it never looked the same!

There are several platforms that can be viable rally cars. All have strong points and all have weaker points. I'm building an Xratty. I think it's a great platform, but spares are a problem (or will be soon), and some parts of the car needed attention (so much rust in the block that it needed to be stripped and cleaned). Wiring is a mess, plastic fuel lines, drum rear brakes.. Volvo seems like a great choice. There are more of them around, so many more spares for the next decade. Hondas have built in limitations and perhaps less upgradable (def harder to maintain in the transmission/diff department), but can be rallied fast right out of the box. There are lots around. Nissan 240's, Sentras, Mazdas. Mustangs. NA Subies. Beemers.

A free shell is great if you intend to change everything anyway. If you just want to weld in a cage, skid plate, seats and struts then maybe a honda for a couple thousand might get you there sooner and still be pretty good.

I bet you could do ok with the BMW. You're gonna be slow when you start out anyway, so maybe you won't break the weakish parts before you get a chance to reinforce them. But what do I know? Not much!