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Aaron Luptak
My initial comment was not because of any dislike of rallycross, but more because of the fact that the discussion so far had been a 50/50 split between:
"Euro-style rallycross is the greatest thing evar and will save stage rally so that any old joe that wants to go race cars in the woods can make money doing it"
and
"Euro-style rallycross is an atrocity of the highest order and will be the end of stage rally in the US for everyone, forever!"

If Rallycross is successful it will probably mean that many people will stop doing stage rally. The people I am thinking of are the ones that have the mentality that the Millen family has. They won't spend their own money to race.
There's not much money out there for sponsorship for rallying.
What money there may have been will likely disappear from stage rally if rallycross is successful.
This may mean a loss of some particular people that have been rallying and continually depleting their trust funds to up the bar and hopefully land that sponsor that will change their lives forever and allow them to race cars full time. Those people will probably start chasing rallycross.
Some of them were fairly talentless in the first place. They did okay in rallying due to the lack of depth of field and that they could outspend some of their competition. We're okay without them.
Others are very talented and will probably be successful. Hopefully they'll be able to use some of that success to also fund some stage rallying. I mean, imagine if a bunch of what are perceived to be top guys do really well in rallycross and make decent enough money to be able to self-fund Max Attack stage rally cars.
It will be interesting to see where this goes. There's too many dedicated and passionate rallyists though for anything like this to destroy stage rallying. It will most likely help it.

If it happens, and the purse is $5k in 2wd, I will give it a go. I know a good body guy....

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Gravel Spray
On a side note, rumor has it the Snoqualmie event is not a go as of yet.

Crap, I was wondering about this. Any word if the permitting will be approved/denied soon? Thinking about booking flights in-between the two events, would be nice not to waste $400.

Dave

I'm hoping it works out. It is a different 'showcase' for rally type skills. I enjoy short course stuff myself. I raced a lot of dirt track in my youth and enjoyed that. Anyone who makes any effort on gravel stages runs the risk of wadding up the car on the first corner, and pretty much for free.... RallyX has a purse and the chance for being easily televised and promoted= potential for sponsorship. The fender to fender damage will be minimal and is much overstated and feared at this time. The problem is when you choose to hit someone or rub them you never know for sure how it will turn out. I'm pretty good at that from my mis-spent youth, but you never really know if you're going to get away without damage to your own car, not to mention the awaiting black flag or the 'discussion' in the pits later.
Quit being naysayers to the people that do want to experience it.

Psst...JVL, you car needs reshelled anyway before it could go onstage....

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Josh Wimpey

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john vanlandingham
Sorry Grant.

I can't afford or risk having to afford potentially reshelling my car when some yahoo with little experience can't back off for a corner and rams me hard.

Not rich enough...

So long as it is rally guys in rally cars entered, I think you have nothing to fear. At the 4 events in NJ, our Golf was not touched even one single time by another car. The only marks on it were from clipping the mirrors on tire bales when trying to take the closest line possible......

Oh man, you guys aren't doing it right. That sounds boring. Have you even seen european rallycross? I want to see carnage! Body panels, wheels, and hay bales flying! Now that's entertainment.

thinking about it pretty strongly as a shakedown for olympus....I want to know where it is going to be held at though.....the whole thing seems really muddy.

---

-Tom
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Doivi Clarkinen

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Josh Wimpey
So long as it is rally guys in rally cars entered, I think you have nothing to fear. At the 4 events in NJ, our Golf was not touched even one single time by another car. The only marks on it were from clipping the mirrors on tire bales when trying to take the closest line possible......

Oh man, you guys aren't doing it right. That sounds boring. Have you even seen european rallycross? I want to see carnage! Body panels, wheels, and hay bales flying! Now that's entertainment.

If not doing it wrong means:
$50 entry fees,
HOURS of seat time every weekend,
podiums at all 4 events,
an $1800 Championship Watch,
$250 headphones,
and checks for a couple grand....

Then yeah, we aren't Doing it right.

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fliz

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Aaron Luptak
I'm in the "meh, i'ma gonna go play in the woods" (someday) camp.

Same here.

Personally, I think that wheel-to-wheel circuit racing is different enough from rally that just because there's dirt doesn't mean that a rally driver is well suited for the task, even if they put "rally" in the name.

Well there about 40 years of rallycross right to European Chamionship level has shown otherwise. Rally guys slot right in and do similar levels to whatever they were doing in rally, and some have moved to rally cross as a "retirement" hobby and done very high indeed. Not aware of any road-race types making a transition...

And having met Will Gollop (1992 European Champion) and spending a couple of days at his shop, and an afternoon of drinking with ex-WRC Saab man Per Eklund, I can assure you they have the right level of sheer madness needed---again, much different from roadracers which seem to be a) much older b) much "softer" and c) more "obsessive compulsive disorder" victims than real high level---in the world not North America---rally guys.

In the end tho there's a fundamental difference between the obsessive shaving a few hundredths off a lap on a simple circuit and driving (at least once) a hundred or two miles on challenging roads that you may have only seen 2 times in a drive thru, or maybe not at all.
On tracks inevitably the focus shift to machinery---since the circuit is KNOWN, in the woods the machinery can be quite simple and if the DRIVER has in his head the skills---which you can't buy---then he can be fast.


This could be fun, but it is a different thing and really you'd want (yet) another car, with more power, shorter gearing, and absolutely serious brakes---always decisive in duels with equals.

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john vanlandingham
This could be fun, but it is a different thing and really you'd want (yet) another car, with more power, shorter gearing, and absolutely serious brakes---always decisive in duels with equals.

1) damn
2) supercharger, check (though I think 2wd limited is the better playground for privateers)
3) shorter diff, check
4) been able to give any thought to fitment for those Wilwood brakes?

Dave



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2011 04:24PM by DaveK.

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heymagic
I'm hoping it works out. It is a different 'showcase' for rally type skills. I enjoy short course stuff myself. I raced a lot of dirt track in my youth and enjoyed that. Anyone who makes any effort on gravel stages runs the risk of wadding up the car on the first corner, and pretty much for free.... RallyX has a purse and the chance for being easily televised and promoted= potential for sponsorship. The fender to fender damage will be minimal and is much overstated and feared at this time. The problem is when you choose to hit someone or rub them you never know for sure how it will turn out. I'm pretty good at that from my mis-spent youth, but you never really know if you're going to get away without damage to your own car, not to mention the awaiting black flag or the 'discussion' in the pits later.
Quit being naysayers to the people that do want to experience it.

Psst...JVL, you car needs reshelled anyway before it could go onstage....

Good points---same as in moto-cross. Clever boys would talk about cornering tactics.
Often they ended up on their ass---either on the track or later----it happens.

As for shell: it does?

The thing is though, like Pete----who ain't dumb, I don't care what anybody says------says, it could call for a slightly different emphasis in the car, a different car really.
And if one was to have a different car, you'd want to be able to use it for more than 1 or 2 times, and then have to park it if the promoters interest shifts and on a whim they get interested in nose-hair braiding or something else...

That means more confidence that events will be frequent enough to build a car and that is more than anybody should have now---all too murky, and some of the locales and methods are too sketchy.

In the circle track world, there's no big doubts you'll have venues to run yoour car---big difference.

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DaveK

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john vanlandingham
This could be fun, but it is a different thing and really you'd want (yet) another car, with more power, shorter gearing, and absolutely serious brakes---always decisive in duels with equals.

1) damn
2) supercharger, check
3) shorter diff, check
4) been able to give any thought to fitment for those Wilwood brakes?

Dave

Was going to but then I got hit hard in the face with a Supra driveshaft, so I'm all shook up. And am a pretty shade of aubergine on the right eye.

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john vanlandingham
Was going to but then I got hit hard in the face with a Supra driveshaft, so I'm all shook up. And am a pretty shade of aubergine on the right eye.

PICS!

As the prize fund and the number of cars increases, we'll see some rubbing in 2wd.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2011 04:39PM by urr.

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Josh Wimpey

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Doivi Clarkinen

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Josh Wimpey
So long as it is rally guys in rally cars entered, I think you have nothing to fear. At the 4 events in NJ, our Golf was not touched even one single time by another car. The only marks on it were from clipping the mirrors on tire bales when trying to take the closest line possible......

Oh man, you guys aren't doing it right. That sounds boring. Have you even seen european rallycross? I want to see carnage! Body panels, wheels, and hay bales flying! Now that's entertainment.

If not doing it wrong means:
$50 entry fees,
HOURS of seat time every weekend,
podiums at all 4 events,
an $1800 Championship Watch,
$250 headphones,
and checks for a couple grand....

Then yeah, we aren't Doing it right.

Meh, who cares what you guys get out of it. The fans want carnage! CARNAGE!! CARS CRASHING FLYING THROUGH THE AIR UPSIDE DOWN, DESTRUCTION!! SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY, WE'LL SELL YOU THE WHOLE SEAT BUT YOU'LL ONLY NEED THE EDGE!!

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john vanlandingham


-again, much different from roadracers which seem to be a) much older b) much "softer" and c) more "obsessive compulsive disorder" victims than real high level---in the world not North America---rally guys.

How many professional road racers have you actually met, John? I've worked with some of the top professional road race drivers in the world and this assertion doesn't really fit. It does fit a subset of amateur American race drivers, though.

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john vanlandingham
In the end tho there's a fundamental difference between the obsessive shaving a few hundredths off a lap on a simple circuit and driving (at least once) a hundred or two miles on challenging roads that you may have only seen 2 times in a drive thru, or maybe not at all.
On tracks inevitably the focus shift to machinery---since the circuit is KNOWN, in the woods the machinery can be quite simple and if the DRIVER has in his head the skills---which you can't buy---then he can be fast.
.

This is true. In circuit racing the focus is more on the machine. The driver is a jockey. He has to be good enough to hang with the rest of the fast guys but if the car is not set up right he's screwed. At the top level the drivers are pretty equal but if one car is a little better than the others then it has an advantage. There are so many more variables in rally that mitigate small advantages in the machinery.