s14 Mayhem

TONIGHT on Unsolved Mysteries!

okay...

So I have a nifty tool that allows me to replace my valve seals without removing my head. I was burnin some good oil so I decided to replace them with said tool. Upon completion and lining everything up right (to my whiteout marks on the cam sprockets, dizzy, crank pulley, piston position, and cam position) it ran just fine. If it only lasted....about 30-40min into running it got this slight valve train noise but not soon before it decided to jerk and sound like someone was attacking my head with a jackhammer. Right now the blame falls on a jumped timing chain which caused probably a bent valve(s) because the upper valve train is 100% intact. But there are questions left unanswered...

If valves are bent, why aren't any springs still depressed from a valve not seating?

Why can't I see any piston damage through the spark plug holes?

Why would the timing chain jump if there is a tensioner and a block preventing so?

Why, if a valve head became lodged in a piston during the ordeal, did that not crack the aluminum head from all the pounding?


Rally build on hold, here is how she sits:





Head is coming off tmrw, but I'm having some trouble with the intake manifold and my tool selection is lacking.

Good news is that while the head is off I may get some headwork done. Airflow within the head is one of the KA24's weaknesses. And I'll be removing emissions while this stuff is apart.

All because of the stupid valve seals.

So if I read this right..you don't know if you have a bent valve or not? Was a cam visably out of time?

Right I'm pretty sure but the thing is everything looked like it was in time except the chain being off a tooth but that's kinda irrelevant because when you rotate it around it doesn't match up anyways.

I'll find out when I pull the head.

A tooth off isn't usually catastrophic. Depending on the motor it may have been close enpugh to allow valve contact but not damage. Putting the cam back in time and either a leakdown or compression check would have been the better option.

We recently had a Kia come in with a hard start and lotsa noise. Found the belt jumped/stripped about 3 teeth. First one I've seen that didn't just completely strip and grenade.

I've had a several contact motors jump and rattle without hurting anything also.

Usually when they really break you see the valve stay down like you described. Some engines snap valve heads, some bend the stem and break the guides.

Also a valve seat can come loose and cause similar symptoms.

I hope it's a simple fix...

Thanks

I'm leaning more and more towards doing a leak down test first like you're saying. Just trying to make a decision now.

Hell, if the cams are out, just run compressed air in the cylinders, see if anything comes out the ports. That'll tell you really quick if you have a valve problem.

I have seen a bent valve that stuck just right so that the height looked okay.

"Hell, if the cams are out, just run compressed air in the cylinders, see if anything comes out the ports. That'll tell you really quick if you have a valve problem." I was thinking the same thing! Quick and easy!

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Taylor, good advice here, but you said there was hellacious racket. You have to find the source of the racket either way.
Compressed air in is good but that doesn't tell you what the noise was..

Also, don't worry about head work. Flow is nice but compression---POP! is what moves the car.
Realistically you don't need to think about 7000 rpm and flow is OK at the normal speeds you use the motor.
Upping compression on the other hand ups TORQUE and that's always the goal first...
Save money.

So would you go ahead and pull the head (take into account I am a novice at this stuff, never done it before) or try and reset the timing and crank it again and see what happens?

I "compressed" the cylinders using my makeshift air compressor (aka my lungs) and it didn't show any signs of a hug leak but I know that's not sufficient to test the cylinders...lol

Also, the machine shop who I talked to, Automotive Machine & Supply, said they have a special way that they do a valve radius job which they have seen gains of 10 ft-lbs of torque. I thought, if anything, do that. But hey, I'm not the rally specialist...what do you say? They are a pretty reputable shop.

http://www.automotivemachine.com/



Also I am deleting my emissions stuff (evac and egr and stuff). That junk is a pain. Now, I know it's in Rally Car rules that I have to have a cat...and that's too late cause mine has been test piped for awhile. I'll have to get a high flow one sometime...

Lung power would definitely show a catastrophic valve issue. Its hard to advise you at this stage of the game. I think most of us would have approached this differently from the onset. You need a steady air source and a set lof gauges to do a proper leak down. A small 110v compressor will work. Maybe if you could find a tech from a speed shop or stealership who would be willing to come over after work for a beer or two or a couple bucksis. Might save you some money.

The rattle concerns us as JV mentioned.

Sarcasm in the first sentence? lol And I really want to do it 90% myself with only guidance as help. I like learning things about my car. Heck if it weren't my only car I would tear it down just to experience it. It'd be fun for me. Oh and a couple of bucks would be a tenth of my money....I start my job tomorrow.

Quick question about rally car emissions stuffs.

If I remove my EVAC, EGR and stuff will it be illegal as defined by the 2011 RallyCar ruleset? I'm keeping my PVC system factory, though...I think.

Just swap in the SR20DET now... It will probably cost less than fixing the KA24DE if you dropped a valve (or broke the head off of one), which is what it sounds like to me. Note: If money is tight you'll probably be able to find a complete KA24DE for less than a set of new valves and the gaskets. People who pul lteh KA for an SR swap usually practically give them away.

So my advce is as folows:
Figure out what went wrong, but don't bother fixing it unless it's something really simple and cheap.
Swap in the SR if you can now... or find a good used KA24DE and swap it in.. keep the rest as spares.

-Martin.

No offense but I don't do SRs. Call me stubborn or whatever but the KA will always stay. I know more about them and how to do things to them and I like the powerband better blah blah blah yeah.

As far as the KA, I have another block at a friends house, just no head....
I was actually planning on stockpiling parts and keep the 240 as is so it could daily drive better until I have everything ready and the spare block built so I could just swap those motors out.

Quote
240tshead
Sarcasm in the first sentence? lol And I really want to do it 90% myself with only guidance as help. I like learning things about my car. Heck if it weren't my only car I would tear it down just to experience it. It'd be fun for me. Oh and a couple of bucks would be a tenth of my money....I start my job tomorrow.

Quick question about rally car emissions stuffs.

If I remove my EVAC, EGR and stuff will it be illegal as defined by the 2011 RallyCar ruleset? I'm keeping my PVC system factory, though...I think.

No sarcasm in the first sentence...this time...if you feel moderate resistance when applying lung power then the valve isn't totally puckered up. It isn't a method in the Motors manual however.

If you're jnot interested in running Production Class (and you'd better not be) then your smaog deletions are fine with RA and NRS, excepting the cat requirements.

I think the KA is an under rated motor myself. Definitely has enough power, mebbe not too much but enough, easy and cheap to get spares and keep going. Actually they are a total powerhouse compared to the old L20/LZ22 configurations.

Yes and on stock internals, one held 532whp and 486ft-lbs of tq! http://www.ka-t.org/cory_b.php I love the KA. I have a spare block, and two spare 5spds for it so when I swap I have an extra. lol

I'm interested in the G5 class and with the KA I have to be. 2.389L and 4v adjusts to 2.6279L (screw your sig figs). Or I could find a 3v truck KA and be right on the edge. But, no.

And yes, unfortunately I am already test piped but I will get a high flow cat.



Also I have a question about my wheels. I found some cheap, offroad wheels (KMC Enduros, $99.95) in 15"x7" but they pretty much only come in -6 offset where my car's stock offset is +40. I was thinking those plus a set of ZG flares would cover the "no tire showing when viewed from above rule".