s14 Mayhem

I think the gods are telling you to put an LS motor in there!

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/1897/update-matt-powers-formula-d-ls7-powered-s14.aspx

Ahhh yes, Matt Powers. I've seen that...that thing is a straight up monster. But I wouldn't do that either, especially for rally..................


Heck if I was drag racing I'd keep the KA, too. Maybe. Fastest, quickest KA-T runs 7s and puts down 1138hp on the pavement.

You seem to be full of numbers...
But you obviously don't really know shit.
You've never taken a head off, have a poor tool selection, and this is your daily driver.
Give your head a shake, quit wanking off about what you're dreaming about doing, and fix your car the cheapest most reliable way you can... If you "don't do SR's", that's your loss, find a good KA for cheap and drop that in. It will be WAY cheaper, quicker, you can do it with minimal tools/experience.
Then you'll have two spare blocks to dick around with in your spare time, and probably no good heads.

-Martin .

There is a 3080 limit on G2 and none on valves, just a weight adjustment. The KA is fine in G2 in NA trim. If you turbo or supercharge it then we'll have some issues with RA accepting that. You just have to weigh at least 2381 for that engine. I'm pretty sure a 240sx caged in rally trim will hit that.

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240tshead
Yes and on stock internals, one held 532whp and 486ft-lbs of tq! http://www.ka-t.org/cory_b.php I love the KA. I have a spare block, and two spare 5spds for it so when I swap I have an extra. lol

I'm interested in the G5 class and with the KA I have to be. 2.389L and 4v adjusts to 2.6279L (screw your sig figs). Or I could find a 3v truck KA and be right on the edge. But, no.

And yes, unfortunately I am already test piped but I will get a high flow cat.



Also I have a question about my wheels. I found some cheap, offroad wheels (KMC Enduros, $99.95) in 15"x7" but they pretty much only come in -6 offset where my car's stock offset is +40. I was thinking those plus a set of ZG flares would cover the "no tire showing when viewed from above rule".

I read that this engine has hydraulic lifters. If they are in pockets in the ends of the rockers, then you may have one flipped upside down and not being filled with oil and thus not working right. We've done that before on the Starquest valvetrain and got a lot of tapping and bapping 'til we re-examined all the little hydraulic lifters. (When you described the symptoms, I thought lifters the 2nd or 3rd thing....)

And, if the chain is supect, check to make sure that the chain guides are all intact, and not having an end broken loose and allowing a guide to move around when running; that will surely move the timing about.

And, if a valve is bent in the right place in the stem, it can stick in the guide, be hit by the piston, and then pop back up into place. Did you rotate the assembled engine slowly through 2 full cycles and watch for valves sticking just a bit of the time and then popping up?

Mark B.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2011 10:18PM by starion887.

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240tshead
Also I have a question about my wheels. I found some cheap, offroad wheels (KMC Enduros, $99.95) in 15"x7" but they pretty much only come in -6 offset where my car's stock offset is +40. I was thinking those plus a set of ZG flares would cover the "no tire showing when viewed from above rule".

You are moving the wheels out by about 2" which may put a lot extra leverage on the bearings, and change the effective spring and shock rates, will effect steering, etc. If it were 1", then maybe OK, but 2" is a lot. It might work, but I would not do it initially in rallying. Not a good move, IMO, just to save a few $$ on wheels. There are sources of cheaper steelies in the US where you can get the offset you need, with light weight.

Mark B.

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heymagic


I think the KA is an under rated motor myself. Definitely has enough power, mebbe not too much but enough, easy and cheap to get spares and keep going. Actually they are a total powerhouse compared to the old L20/LZ22 configurations.

Gene, Gene Gene! Just had 2 newbies from Olympia come spend the morning discussing a 510 they found for $150.......
I did my best, honest! I tried!
They're thinking L20B..


I have failed.
I'm thinking of ending it all.
L20B!!!

Why why why---when there's KA24DEs just rotting that nobody loves?

The 510 has rust in the floor, too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2011 12:53AM by john vanlandingham.

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MRWmotorsports
You seem to be full of numbers...
But you obviously don't really know shit.
You've never taken a head off, have a poor tool selection, and this is your daily driver.
Give your head a shake, quit wanking off about what you're dreaming about doing, and fix your car the cheapest most reliable way you can... If you "don't do SR's", that's your loss, find a good KA for cheap and drop that in. It will be WAY cheaper, quicker, you can do it with minimal tools/experience.
Then you'll have two spare blocks to dick around with in your spare time, and probably no good heads.

-Martin .

I've never took a head off because I haven't needed too. I'm perfectly capable of doing so. I don't necessarily have a poor tool selection. The whole SR vs. KA thing is really an opinion/preference and I prefer the KA. But don't say I don't know "shit"...I mean of course I don't know as much as y'all experienced rallyists and car enthusiasts but I do know some "shit" what ever "shit" is. And, yeah, I'm learning at the same time. There's nothing wrong with giving out a little factual information behind a motor. One reason that I want to stick with this motor is because I want to gain the experience of working on it some. I'm usually not the one to take the easy way out, I like to gain something from it. Thanks for all of the useful info

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There is a 3080 limit on G2 and none on valves, just a weight adjustment. The KA is fine in G2 in NA trim. If you turbo or supercharge it then we'll have some issues with RA accepting that. You just have to weigh at least 2381 for that engine. I'm pretty sure a 240sx caged in rally trim will hit that.

Oh I thought I read in the ruleset that G2 was up to 2.4L adjusted and G5 was 2.4L to 5.1L....guess I'll give that another look over. And no plans for FI just yet. Maybe a few years after this thing gets rolling then I'll give it more serious thought.

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I read that this engine has hydraulic lifters. If they are in pockets in the ends of the rockers, then you may have one flipped upside down and not being filled with oil and thus not working right. We've done that before on the Starquest valvetrain and got a lot of tapping and bapping 'til we re-examined all the little hydraulic lifters. (When you described the symptoms, I thought lifters the 2nd or 3rd thing....)

And, if the chain is supect, check to make sure that the chain guides are all intact, and not having an end broken loose and allowing a guide to move around when running; that will surely move the timing about.

And, if a valve is bent in the right place in the stem, it can stick in the guide, be hit by the piston, and then pop back up into place. Did you rotate the assembled engine slowly through 2 full cycles and watch for valves sticking just a bit of the time and then popping up?

Mark B.

Well the KA24de doesn't have rocker arms. But this last noise sounded quite a bit worse than lifters. The first noise sounded more like lifters. I just got a new OEM chain ordered today. The last one in our area pretty much.

After the noises happened we rotated the engine over like fifty times and none were sticking.

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You are moving the wheels out by about 2" which may put a lot extra leverage on the bearings, and change the effective spring and shock rates, will effect steering, etc. If it were 1", then maybe OK, but 2" is a lot. It might work, but I would not do it initially in rallying. Not a good move, IMO, just to save a few $$ on wheels. There are sources of cheaper steelies in the US where you can get the offset you need, with light weight.

Mark B.

Yeah I have thought about the bearing issue. I heard steelies are prone to bending, however. Maybe I should trade my 5lug for someones 4lug +cash, since 5lug is SO coveted and use s13 se wheels or something. hmmm.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2011 11:37PM by 240tshead.

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john vanlandingham

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heymagic

I think the KA is an under rated motor myself. Definitely has enough power, mebbe not too much but enough, easy and cheap to get spares and keep going. Actually they are a total powerhouse compared to the old L20/LZ22 configurations.

Gene, Gene Gene! Just had 2 newbies from Olympia come spend the morning discussing a 510 they found for $150.......
I did my best, honest! I tried!
They're thinking L20B..


I have failed.
I'm thinking of ending it all.
L20B!!!

Why why why---when there's KA24DEs just rotting that nobody loves?

The 510 has rust in the floor, too.

hey I love the KA. of course you all know that by now.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2011 11:34PM by 240tshead.

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240tshead

Well the KA24de doesn't have rocker arms. But this last noise sounded quite a bit worse than lifters. The first noise sounded more like lifters. I just got a new OEM chain ordered today. The last one in our area pretty much.

After the noises happened we rotated the engine over like fifty times and none were sticking.

Yeah I have thought about the bearing issue. I heard steelies are prone to bending, however. Maybe I should trade my 5lug for someones 4lug +cash, since 5lug is SO coveted and use s13 se wheels or something. hmmm.

OK and OK. I assume there is no way to get a cam follower flipped over or messed up in some way? It can happen with some valvetrains....

As for steel wheel, yes, they bend, but if you hit any cast/forged wheel hard enough, it'll just break. We run both with different tires. The steels will bend if you whack a rock, but we've never had one bend just from hard stage running, and that is with around 700 or more stages run by us on stock steel wheels in the 13", 14" and 15" ranges. A bent bead lip can be beat back in shape at service and you keep going. Worst case is if you hit hard enough to leak out the air, but with that hard a hit a cast/forged wheel may or may not break.

For cheap wheels for Rally TN I am looking at Circle Racing Wheels 15x7 IMCA wheels. They are a bit lighter than cast/forged rally wheels, and a lot lighter than comparable stock steel wheels. At a bit under $60 each new, it it a hard deal to beat (assuming the last OK on stage; they're probably Ok for tramac rally like Rally TN.) Dunno if any models like that will fit your bolt circle and offset.

Going to smaller wheels as you are consdiering does not make sense to me. Maybe for a low rider, but you don't need a shorter tire togive you ground clearance problems. And there seem to be many more tire choices in 15" rally tires than anything else. So I would stick with 15" and keep shopping for wheels.

And I really like the 'valve-seals' photo; that's most amusing and clever!

Mark B.

Parts of this thread are becoming mindful of the 3 Stooges episode that is on TV right now....
Moe: "I'll take this end...."
Larry: "I'll take that end...."
Curly Joe: "I'll take the end in the middle...."
OK, you had to be there...

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john vanlandingham

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2011 10:25AM by starion887.

The KA is a good reliable engine, makes good power for a beginner. He has so much more to worry about, such as cage and equipment, suspension and experience than spending money on a SR swap.

Some people need to realize that is somewhat intimidating joining a new forum, even worse getting beat about the head and shoulders needlessly....manners, what ever happened to manners??

"Some people need to realize that [it] is somewhat intimidating joining a new forum, even worse getting beat about the head and shoulders needlessly....manners, what ever happened to manners??" Agreed!

It's ok for a new person to ask lots of question that may seem "stupid". This is part of the learning process. What gets irritating is when there is no learning taking place or when the right to an opinion get confused with logical thinking.

Keep asking questions and keep an open mind!

My suggestions to you are to try to keep the car as simple as possible. The factory has done a lot of engineering and assembly for you. There have to be clear benefits in time, cost and performance to make any changes. A bone stock car with safety equipment and a skid plate will rally for a long time! You can make improvements as time, money and need dictate.

In the end you need to ask yourself if you want to: A. talk about rallying, B. forever build the "ultimate car", or C. actually participate in an event! On-line forums are full of A and B type people. I really hope that I will see you at an event soon!

As for your engine......If there is any question about the root cause of failure, I would remove the cylinder head for further inspection. I would look for piston to valve and piston to head contact.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

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starion887


And I really like the 'valve-seals' photo; that's most amusing and clever!

Mark B.

Would you say has your:



As for me and the SR20 vs the KA thing, I already said to him in THAT car for a beginner fine run the damn thing.
Worry about compression, camshaft and fuel/ignition and final drive cause the gravel tires are tall and gear you up.

But above all worry about edjimacation and the future.

But for now get out the BOOK and check chain guides, skids etc.