As requested, here is the blow by blow of my off.

Saturday was a tough day for all, but our day started well. 20+ cars in MaxAttack, and after 2 stages we find our selves in 8th. Not bad. Smith creek was good, then broke 6 bolts on a driveshaft flange, then everything else happened. end of day.

Sunday starts with 2 runs through wreck creek. I love rough, technical stages, and usually do well. After the wreck creek stages we are 11th OA in the regional, and 4th 2wd just 4.5 seconds behind the Hintz BMW. That was a good feeling. I really don't like 5 gear stages, so I was dreading Taholah. We did ok, had a small slide into the first chicane and spent 20 seconds stuck in the ditch. I think that maybe got me to push a bit harder.

The run back down Taholah was going much better, Jenne's notes were spot on, everything was just clicking.

The off. It was a downhill section, winding down a hill. the note I think was R4 crest into L3. On the recce I added braking before the crest, so it read R4 Braking crest into L3. So I came over the crest and the car rotated the tail out to the right and got out in the loose gravel. I countersteered and it just kept getting wider and wider. I knew we were going off, and i can't remember grabbing the hand brake, but the car rotated that last little bit so it went into the tree at almost 90 degrees. It just glanced the B pillar, spun the car 180, and nosed it off the road with the tail sticking out. I think someone with more seat time could have saved it, but I know I tried the best I could. The tree angled forward at least 30 degrees, and was about 2 feet thick. Walking back up the road, I noticed it goes just slightly off camber over the crest.

I asked Jenne if she was OK, she said yes, the I apologized about 3 or 4 times, she snapped me out of my mental lapse, said her door would not open, mine would not either. She climbed out her side, I rolled down the window and climbed out my side. She had a triangle out already, I grabbed it, an ok sign, and ran up past the first corner. After the first car passed, I ran back down, grabbed another triangle, and had Jenne go to the first corner, and I went up 2 corners. I tried to portray that we were ok with the sign, and a thumbs up, because I am sure that the sight of the car was not a good thing to see.

What I learned. I is a good feeling to be in the fight, but for me, it took me out of my normal game plan, which is progressively gaining speed. I got to that range were people have a big off, and I did not heed to the warnings, even though the warning signs were there for me.

So, for all you new guys out there, please listen to those who have been there, they have seen it before, and are just trying to save you from a big mestake.

Glad you are both ok.

I would be interested in listening to the wise words... Maybe a sticky for tips building speed within the limits? Wilson and I had a slightly tense moment last weekend that would have put us in the trees HARD. Rattled me a bit, though he didn't seem to mind much.

I fucking HATE blind crests. I've gotten wimpy enough that I pretty much brake for all of them less I *know* what's behind 'em like the one on Smith. Taholah is and has always been a dangerous stage, the sorta place where you can't win the rally at, but sure as hell you can throw the whole shebang away.

Glad you're OK. glad the car/cage did its job. Good post, great co-driver! Hope to see you build another one.

Stuff happens.

Thanks for sharing (really).

Take some time to digest it all. BTDT

press on,

---

just a poor, dumb, Michigan navie

OK. You obviously love to build sweet cars. You have the parts to build another awesome Xr4ti. So why don't you do that, and see how you feel as the build progresses or when you're done? If you don't feel like you ever want to rally again then you have a great car for the raceway days, TSD rallies etc, and maybe by the time you're done you'll feel fine about hitting the stages again.

I rolled my rally car at my second rally in a similar way... got a bit wide around an off camberand hit the loose gravel, sideways into ditch and over. Could've been a tree easy.

The off-camber does that; been there, done that, same results. Thanks for sharing the description. At some point in that sequence, decide it is gone, crank out the countersteer, steer the other way, and spin it.

IMO, the real key is what made you push harder ===> red mist. I've gotten to where I force myself to slow down for a bit when I get flustered; a wait of a few tens of seconds seems to get me back into the groove safely. The hard part for new folks seems to be learning to recognize the warning signs that are there; if you don't yet know something bad can happen, how can you know to take heed? At best, you get lucky with a few hairy incidents, and leanr to heed the signs in that way.

Glad to read that Gene helped you see things better. He's a good guy.

Regards and all the best,
Mark B.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2011 07:42PM by starion887.

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mhooper
Wilson and I had a slightly tense moment last weekend that would have put us in the trees HARD. Rattled me a bit, though he didn't seem to mind much.

Mikey, Mikey, Mikey....Wilson navv'd for JD! Nothing you could do could phase him after that....Why do you think he drinks?

Mark B.

I guess I'll share my story too, in hopes someone learns from it. My lessons:
- Don't fucking lift.
- Tightening corners are to be respected, especially ones that tighten off camber or downhill. Get those noted right in recce.

This is the car after we went off in my 2nd rally as a driver (2 years co-driving, infinite rally-xes, TSDs):
http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,44000

The corner is here in this video at about 5:40




So it's a CrR5>4. But it goes slightly downhill as well, and at the time I didn't think about noting it. When we came at it, I came in too fast, and the rear end stepped way out to the left. I think at this point I panicked and lifted, I can't remember since it happened so fast. We tail slapped 2 more times and on the final one I just couldn't save it anymore and we went off into a big 1 foot wide tree and down a 10 foot drop. The car spun around on the snapped off tree and landed on its side. Done, demolished in only the 2nd rally. The car probably could have been saved, but every panel took a hit, so that plus its age meant no rebuild.

I already got another car and ran Perce Neige, but now I have no money and it's hard to sell Scirocco parts. I regret this crash every day. So, lesson learned, don't push too early in your rally career, and the above two points.

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starion887

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mhooper
Wilson and I had a slightly tense moment last weekend that would have put us in the trees HARD. Rattled me a bit, though he didn't seem to mind much.

Mikey, Mikey, Mikey....Wilson navv'd for JD! Nothing you could do could phase him after that....Why do you think he drinks?

Mark B.

That's funny. I was thinking the same thing.

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AlexeiS
I guess I'll share my story too, in hopes someone learns from it. My lessons:
- Don't fucking lift.
- Tightening corners are to be respected, especially ones that tighten off camber or downhill. Get those noted right in recce.
.

I already got another car and ran Perce Neige, but now I have no money and it's hard to sell Scirocco parts. I regret this crash every day. So, lesson learned, don't push too early in your rally career, and the above two points.

Maybe another lesson is avoid cars were primarily style excercises with long and or heavy overhangs like Scirocco, Corrado, Eclipse, Audis.

Get something basically well balanced, maybe...

I agree with the tightening corners and crests needing respect. I disagree with keeping a car floored as the answer, especially with RWD cars. Car placement on the road surface is a key element. Anytime a middle of the pack car gets the wheels at the outside edge of the road trouble is awaiting. There is an artificial berm of fresh and loose gravel there. Very easy to see on any NASCAR track with tire rubber bits. When you hit that loose crap or drop tires on a RWD car you're screwed, especially if you're turning into the corner. Standing on the gas just aggravates it if anything, the car is already in a snap oversteer motion.

Now if you're attacking the corner, inside line, slight drift, slight counter steer then you have a chance. Too much inside(ditchhooking) is bad juju, too much middle or outside is bad juju. I've seen cars destroyed on the inside of a corner when the front bumper or tires hoooks a bank or stump. Outside corner issues are quite obvious.

Sean is a bit of a calculating driver, not a balls to the wall guy. He simply got caught out. Could have been just a ditch experience, canyon experience or the woody he recieved ( snicker...) The sad thing is a beatuiful car got destroyed and worse is Sean's mental state. Both will be fixed with a bit of time. They are great people to have in the sport and I would hate to see that end. We need these kind of competitors in our midst.

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john vanlandingham
Maybe another lesson is avoid cars were primarily style excercises with long and or heavy overhangs like Scirocco, Corrado, Eclipse, Audis.

Get something basically well balanced, maybe...

Yeah, that wasn't great either. The new used car has a great heritage and the previous driver did great in it. Hopefully I won't suck completely in it, although I'm sure I will.

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AlexeiS

Gawddam those look like fun stages! Dayum, Narrow and squirmy...

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john vanlandingham
Gawddam those look like fun stages! Dayum, Narrow and squirmy...

Just how I like my women...