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tipo158

The old looping version of Taholah was OK.

Another good stage that we didn't get to at Olympus this year is Pico.

As far as JVL's implication that the organizer just haven't asked about other roads, it is incorrect. They have asked. Unfortunately, the current roads and the current land ownership does not neatly align well for running a rally on those roads.

alan

Alan I didn't "imply" anything. Just commented that I got buried in shit when I asked Manspeaker-woman IF anybody had asked. And in passing mentioned that for 10 years on the "wouldn't it be marrvy if we could use studs on snow events so we could drive hard, " and getting the same lame tired and disingenuous answer "Neener neener! It's illegal!!!!!!! in Michigan!!!!! Whaaaaaaaa! whaa!"
I finally pointed out that it's illegal to drive 100 mph on county or township roads---and that the whole event is done under temporary dispensations from the normally applicable laws----and asked pointedly "Has anybody ever asked?"

I am just wondering, and gene was polite enough to call on the phone back then and 'splain to me what's up.

But, and thank goodness the idiot Conservatives in Canada have entirely succeeded in destroying their Healthcare,
cause Morison is going have a siezure, but


Morison astutely pointed out that sometimes, maybe OFTEN organisers have some strong vision of what THEY personally think they want their events to be, or should be, understandable enough, rather than
what the "market" wants..

of course that focuses on the question "who is the market" and more broadly "How are "wants" created?"

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heymagic
All in all I think rally will go the way of quilting bees pretty soon, for a variety of reasons. Enjoy it while you can.

Rally just needs a rediscovery.
One problem I see is that too many people have this belief that it can be more than a hobby. If they just invest a little more money, if they just had the full vehicle wrap, if they just had a semi truck with matching paint they'd look professional and the money would start pouring in...

Sure. Fancy cars and big money might lead to maybe a TV show or coverage or a few people, usually already wealthy or from a wealthy family to start, might be able to make a career out of driving. But without a large local contingent rally will die. Without seat time and stage miles people will continue to drive at the mediocre level they currently are and there will be no fan base to provide volunteers, organizers, and most importantly, local political influence.

There's hundreds of miles of beautiful stages just 30 miles from Denver. The national forest people want nothing to do with us. They already find themselves in the middle of a battle between conservationists in the region, most of whom are transplants from the west coast, and the off road community that has thousands of miles of trails. If they off road guys didn't have strength in numbers they would be expelled also. We need strength in numbers. We're not going to get there when every event costs a few grand to run and the general perception is that you have to have a 50-100K Subaru to be successful.

Hm. I feel like we should add a tagline to NNR:

NNR - Never Gonna Be A National

or

NNR - Bring Your Crapcan: We Won't Break It But You Might

or

NNR - If You're Not Having Fun, You're Doing It Wrong

Anyway, yeah, there's definitely a perception that you need a Subaru and a turbo and AWD and carbon fiber and and and...to do rally, and that you'll be able to step into the car and be the fastest guy out there.

And then you run a few event and either wad up the car, or run out of money rebuilding your dogbox for the Nth time, or get your ass handed to you by some dork in a crapcan Nissan, and lose interest.

Before my class change on Betsy, when i pulled into a gas station i would often get asked a bunch of questions (usually by males age 16-24 ish , often with some sorta energy drink attire) Pretty quickly some comment or question "that thing awd?" or "Awd rules doesn't it?" and i mentioned that it was 2wd. I've been told several several times "oh i didn't think that would LET you rally a 2wd"

But ya rally just needs a rediscovery (as a hobby). There are still lots and lots of cool dirt roads around the US. lots of people that like driving. lots of people that like to watch driving.

NNR - Boost for the win !

er
NNR - You can flat that double caution ... Trust me ..

..

NNR - IT kicks ass, be there or start working on your excuse MEOW!

Ok monkeys, have you taken a look at these road they will have at Mendocino? http://mendocinorally.com/page2.html



(Go Jim, Go!)

When I told my dad that Mendocino was going to be run again he was all sorts of excited, said that those roads were some of the best they ever ran back in the day.

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12xalt
When I told my dad that Mendocino was going to be run again he was all sorts of excited, said that those roads were some of the best they ever ran back in the day.

Until it rains, then they are essentially slimy snot on slick base.
The ever brilliant "No Studs rule" which we have been plagued with was issued by SCCA the Wednesday after a National in Mendocino which the crazy Dutchman Hendrik Blok used studded tires on the slime-mud roads, killed everybody bad and won.
Mike Gibault told me about that one.

And it is the Coast range, and it does occasionally rain.
It did the one time I was in those woods on the skinny trails, which were slimy but the roads were treacherous-er than hell.

The days of Blok was when he meant, I'll have to remember to ask him about that particular instance.

I personally want to run stages where I average 35 MPH cuz they are so tricky.

However I know well that getting new (or old) roads is not going to happen anywhere in Western Washington.

But its in August....it doesn't rain in CA in August. Even in San Francisco. I just hope its not 110 degrees outside.



and Hoche, I don't know what you're talking about....I haven't had to rebuild my dogbox once yet.
































(yet)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2011 11:34PM by Jon Burke.

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Jon Burke
But its in August....it doesn't rain in CA in August. Even in San Francisco. I just hope its not 110 degrees outside.



and Hoche, I don't know what you're talking about....I haven't had to rebuild my dogbox once yet.




He has had a great routine with the dog box Jim, all that is left is the dis-mount........



























(yet)

Technically, studs are legal in Michigan. It's just that they need to be MDOT approved, and none are if I remember.

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Morison

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gkd
I am probably going to tow from SoCal to "Lanark Highlands" next year, and run through more turns in one day than I will see in 4 days of typical rallying. I am probably not exaggerating much.

The 2008 Idaho roads were brilliant. I think the event suffered from trying to become bigger and more of an event the 'local' community could support. For a relatively local event I couldn't justify taking what would become a full week off work to run essentially a WRC schedule. Events need to become what the market needs, not necessarily what the organizer wants.

Before towing to SoOnt you might want to have a look at events like Mountain Trials, Pacific Forest Rally and Big White in BC. While MT and PFR do have some 'super highway' sections they also typically have a good selection of challenging stages. Not as 'jumpy' as the Lanark or Pines roads but your back will appreciate that about the events. The entire Western Canada Rally Championship offers some good events and good roads as a whole and a few great roads. (All two pass recce without organizer supplied notes - works well for us and has for 7 years, not sure it that works for you. Not sure if the OPRC events are moving that direction or not.)

Then again, people do tend to think their local roads are some of the best around and their local drivers are some of the fastest around so take what I say with a grain of salt. :-)

Rally Idaho should be fantastic. Dick Rockrohr is heading things up, and from the few meetings I've been able to attend I wish I could have my car together in time. Get your cars out here! I may have a spare bedroom for any crashers. (gotta check with the wife) if interested shoot me a message.

anyway here is the site http://www.idahorally.com Come play on smooth roads in the sunshine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2011 12:22PM by aj_johnson.

On the other hand Wild West is being planned for Pomeroy again. I had hopes that it might be a scaled down practical event this year but there are some indications that a certain organizer is going to run amuck again...so who knows.

Regional events need to be easy, fun and practical. Fark the WRC approach. We're never going to have a WRC event in the PNW again. Them days are about 23 years gone.