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BJosephD
i do not have the experiance to put on a full stage rally. hell the i have marshalled at a few events but still, i just dont have the experiance. Maybe a 2-3 stage day and a half affair to start. the vacinity to team Oneils is not mutch of an issue. i was looking just north of "south branch lake maine" on google maps and there are plenty of twisty roads. questions is if they are passable.

why day and a half? why not make it short and sweet - 1 or 2 stages, recce in the morning, race in the afternoon.

//yes, i may have been drinking the kool-aid.

As someone who's been poring over aerial imagery recently looking at roads (and actually driving on them later), I've found this 'guideline' works - for me, out west - a road that shows up as being narrower than ~18 feet (use google earth's ruler to measure) is probably a 'jeep trail' type road - maybe passable, but probably not much fun to rally unless you're driving a Bill Holmes truck. Stuff wider than 18 feet is often fairly smooth graded roads.

I drove I70 from I-15 to Denver on Monday. The areas of Utah around that area seemed like there may be some really good roads out there. Even the dirt frontage road that follows the highway/creek looked like it could be super fun though probably pretty fast.

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NoCoast
I drove I70 from I-15 to Denver on Monday. The areas of Utah around that area seemed like there may be some really good roads out there. Even the dirt frontage road that follows the highway/creek looked like it could be super fun though probably pretty fast.

lotsa good roads all over UT. Haven't driven most of I-70 (green river to moab turnoff and back about 1000000x, but that's it), so can't say about those roads in particular.

Actually looking into some roads ~90 minutes from SLC... Better located for the 2.5 rally cars (wonder what happened to Richard Losee's GTI?) that I know of in the state, maybe get some Boise folks too.

Yeah. Having babies ends many rally aspirations so I wouldn't expect many rallyists out of Utah. My mormon friend that went to BYU with had four kids the next time I saw him. We were 23 at that point in time. Then again, we grew up with their whole family. At least one sibling in the same grade in both our families plus their other seven.
I have an option to go spectate at a race 2 hours away or go check out some roads six hours away next weekend. Would have to do some maintenance on the Imprezas to handle the road scoping.

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BJosephD
Maybe a 2-3 stage day and a half affair to start.

Onterrible has great success with one-road rallies at the regional level. Recce in the morning and run in the afternoon - I think.
Out west, in Canada, the thought of a low mileage event turns people off for the most part. We looked at running half day sprints and the universal reaction was a preference for test days over a sprint.
The travel out here is to the point that it doesn't make a lot of difference if you're doing a half day or a full day of racing and the teams that travel want to make it worth their time.

The biggest thing you need to do to start an event would be to figure out who you're going to draw in for competitors and understand what they will or will not attend. (and when they would attend)

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Morison
The biggest thing you need to do to start an event would be to figure out who you're going to draw in for competitors and understand what they will or will not attend. (and when they would attend)

Agreemsg.


Anders, all that paperwork is really great, but as you know that's only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to putting on rallies. Still, every little bit helps.

What would also help is a lower insurance rate. NRS's rates are really expensive for rallies with less than 15-20 cars - and for organizers that're working in remote spots, that's about the biggest field they can expect these days.

You are absolutly correct i would say there is upwards of 30 logbooked cars in new england and many other collecting dust (mine). A regional performance rally run twice a year in a poodunk town is my vision. Other than hunting season iam sure road closure on a saturday in rural maine would be cheap. Its all about the location though. close enough to town for logistics and far enough for a selection of roads. dare to dream...

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Morison

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BJosephD
Maybe a 2-3 stage day and a half affair to start.

Onterrible has great success with one-road rallies at the regional level. Recce in the morning and run in the afternoon - I think.
Out west, in Canada, the thought of a low mileage event turns people off for the most part. We looked at running half day sprints and the universal reaction was a preference for test days over a sprint.
The travel out here is to the point that it doesn't make a lot of difference if you're doing a half day or a full day of racing and the teams that travel want to make it worth their time.

The biggest thing you need to do to start an event would be to figure out who you're going to draw in for competitors and understand what they will or will not attend. (and when they would attend)

(Sorry. Couldn't resist.)

Just gets me thinking...
1. How many rally cars are there within 150 miles of Phoenix?
2. What would the owners of said rally cars want to do with them?
3. Where could we do it?

Hmmm...

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

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hoche
What would also help is a lower insurance rate.

Lower printing rates, t-shirt rates, trophy rates, tire rates, steel rates, interest rates, labor rates, and fuel rates would also help, but unfortunately I don't control those either.

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hoche
NRS's rates are really expensive for rallies with less than 15-20 cars

I haven't seen insurance that has the coverage of NRS available for less anywhere else.

Cheers,
Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

I think the insurance issue is NASA's flat rate vs RA's per car. If, for example, NASA insurance is $4000 for an event of any size, and RA insurance is $125/car, you need to have at least 33 entrants in order for the NASA insurance to cost less. $$ numbers pulled out of my butt, but I think thats the idea that Michel is trying to get across regarding NASA insurance rates and events with a low number of entries.

I totally agree, the per-car versus lump sum pricing model absolutely determines who takes the financial risk when putting on an event. (The crossover point is around 20 cars.) But long term stability for the sanctioning body means not losing money year after year while subsidizing small rallies. Unfortunately, that's just a reality. You'd have to have a millionaire benefactor to pull off that kind of thing, and NRS doesn't.

The other side of it is that long term stability of the event also means that it needs to not lose money too.

Liability is about the same, but NRS medical coverage is 1,000,000 (one million) dollars. RA is (when I checked last year) 50,000 (fifty thousand) dollars (5% of NRS medical coverage). To say "I need x cars for NRS insurance to cost less" is a simplified analysis that doesn't take into account that you get less with the other insurance.

You could reduce the cost of insurance even more by having no medical coverage, but I think that's short sighted. One great way to avoid getting sued by hurt people is to have them already covered so they don't need to sue.

Example: A guy gets banged up while racing. Goes to the hospital. The helicopter ride alone is $30,000 Let's say the total cost is $200,000.
Scenario A: Insurance covers everything.
Scenario B: Insurance covers some, and the guy is left with $150,000 in bills.

I know my guess as to "Which scenario is more likely to have law suits in the future?"

And trust me, yes, we have people compete in rally that have no personal medical coverage. For myself, I've had events where my name has been the one on the bottom line and we've needed to transport/helicopter people to the hospital. I was pretty relieved to know they were going to get patched up without losing their house.

Unfortunately, I don't have any magic powers to lower insurance rates or fix the economy. I wish we could have rallies with $40 entry fees that only take a week to organize and only needed a couple volunteers and had awesome insurance, but I don't know how to make that feasible. So instead I work on the things that I can work on to make the rallies better.

Cheers!
Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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heymagic
It is a bit easier to go before local landowners with the polished RA program and media hype than as a bunch of regional hooligans in old Volvos. Sorry but its true.

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I disagree with this, Gene. Having confidence in your 'product' and what you are going to do gives ales confidence. And what is looked at as OK by landonwers and the local politicians depends entirely on the marktet; if an area is looking for economic development and activity of any type, then the Vovlo guys work just fine. If you're selling at a high-falutin resort area, then the polish may be what is needed to get in the door.

It's like car repair shops: Some folks won't ever go to any place 'cept a dealer. Others prefer a friendly, honest, knowledgeable guy is who they will trust their cars to. If the latter were not ture, you would not be in business! (And me neither!)

Mark B.

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starion887

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heymagic
It is a bit easier to go before local landowners with the polished RA program and media hype than as a bunch of regional hooligans in old Volvos. Sorry but its true.

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I disagree with this, Gene. Having confidence in your 'product' and what you are going to do gives ales confidence. And what is looked at as OK by landonwers and the local politicians depends entirely on the marktet; if an area is looking for economic development and activity of any type, then the Vovlo guys work just fine. If you're selling at a high-falutin resort area, then the polish may be what is needed to get in the door.

It's like car repair shops: Some folks won't ever go to any place 'cept a dealer. Others prefer a friendly, honest, knowledgeable guy is who they will trust their cars to. If the latter were not ture, you would not be in business! (And me neither!)

Mark B.[/quote

Well you're welcome to disagree but have you organized a RA national to actually compare the reactions and results???

Gene,

Please take this as an honest reply:

I don't have to sell ADC fiber DAS products to know that I like selling Commscope/Andrew fiber DAS products and that they are quality products that end customers like. You sell what you have faith in, and to your market; any good salesman/woman takes what they have and will sell it, if it is a quality product.

You also have no info on what I experienced in RWV to make any fair comparison between the 2. I never felt that I was received a 'regional hooligan'; I felt that my only cool receptions were due to me and my personal presentation. I can be pretty 'professional' when I want to be, but specialize at technical sales; technical ususally does not impress the avaerage politician. But it did well with the local road management authorites, and they were mostly impressed with thoroughness, how I treated other local groups, and that I kept my word and was true to my promised performance. The level of how impressive the show was would have had little meaning to them.

There are only 6 RA Nationals, and I believe that is driven by pro competitor and RA economics, and is not likely to change anytime soon. Why bring this up as an example when others who are not in favor with the owners and managers of RA will never be given this opportunity? Why would I even think of selling a 'product' that is only selectively given to certain 'sales agents', or seek it when I am not going to get it?

And, maybe I am a contrary guy, but promoting a rally that brings fame and fortune to me is not my thing; I have done it because I was lucky to start rallying in the late 70's and life was good in rally for everybody. I do it because I want others to have that chance; it's been a great experience in life. I only wish I was more persitent and less easily overwhelmed by the tasks. I will say to that, that the tools given to me by Anders and John Shirley, were very good to help me along, and that Mike at Sno-Drift was good to share too.

So I don't believe any one has a monopoly on this. I think that Anders is trying to promote the NRS product, and that's OK. And, again, in a market, any company/organization has a right to be there, and should work to their strengths; that might make any company a specialty player, focusing in particular parts of the market, but no 'company' can be all things to all customers... and is, I believe, why you and I have very real opportunity to succeed on our own businesses.

Mark B.

How does insurance work when the stage roads are all on private land? Of course transits would be on the state and county roads.

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Brap Brap.