Looking for anyone interested in coming out to Snowshoe Mountain, West Virginia to play on the roads or to be a "roadie" and set things up for those playing.

Rally West Virginia Event

They are looking for volunteers for every area, including remote scoring (some of you have done this before for NASA East events w/ Anders.)

Eric Wages is also offering up floor space at a LARGE rental for the first 7 volunteers who hit him up (includes free beer!) I think some of those 7 have already been spoken for, so get in quick if you're interested.

Hope to see some of you out there!

Kyle Gagliardi ..... ford focus says google? anyone got a link to car build pics??? is he on here??

What kind of car build pics?

I didn't meet him at nefr. Nor did I see his car... just curious. PS this Droid tablet nook is cool but super inefficient. I don't mind sliding finger on a cell but this thing takestoolong. And runs wordstogether if uttpe too fast.

Tom here... not Brian.. So Shirley refunded my entry fee this morning when I called him out for not being honest about the stages at RWV again this year. If you recall, last year was canceled for what he refered to as problems with the roads. Turns out this was a smoke screen falsehood. I knew that all along as I go to that area in W. Va. all the time and I talk to the locals.... I mentioned washed out roads, and they looked at me like I was crazy. So BS on that excuse....

This year - we lost all of the Saturday's stages overnight last night - a meer 4 days before the event. It's down to 1 road run 4 times Friday and 4 times Saturday. I am so disappointed i'm beyond words....

And I truely believe this was his intent all along. Lie about the stages, and then change the itenary at the very last moment when everyone is committed to coming. Well, John refunded my entry fee in full without me asking... so we've withdrawn.

I'm so disappointed...

Quote
brianallmotor
Tom here... not Brian.. So Shirley refunded my entry fee this morning when I called him out for not being honest about the stages at RWV again this year. If you recall, last year was canceled for what he refered to as problems with the roads. Turns out this was a smoke screen falsehood. I knew that all along as I go to that area in W. Va. all the time and I talk to the locals.... I mentioned washed out roads, and they looked at me like I was crazy. So BS on that excuse....

This year - we lost all of the Saturday's stages overnight last night - a meer 4 days before the event. It's down to 1 road run 4 times Friday and 4 times Saturday. I am so disappointed i'm beyond words....

And I truely believe this was his intent all along. Lie about the stages, and then change the itenary at the very last moment when everyone is committed to coming. Well, John refunded my entry fee in full without me asking... so we've withdrawn.

I'm so disappointed...

I have no knowledge of last year so I will leave that alone. It seems strange the roads would be lost this year as my understanding is all of this years strages are on private property controled by a single land owner.

As for repetition....are there any US rallies that don't run stages multiple times to add mileage and keep the event compact. I thought these stages were unusually long (15-25 miles) with Friday being run in the dark and Saturday being a variation of the Friday stages run in reverse. so there is repetition but with long stages (lot's want this), lot's of night stages (lot's want this), compact event (fewer workers needed, shorter transits - everyone wants this).

sounds like John did the right thing and refunded your entry. sorry that it is not what you wanted but it is certainly not worthy of the trashing you are giving it. You make it sound like he promised you a WRC event and you found out it was a rallyX.

Tom:

You are wrong, and barking up the wrong tree.

The 2010 cancellation was done because of road conditions. I would be more than happy to put you in touch with the folks - not John Shirley - that checked out the roads if you wish.

As to this years event, I've been in touch with John throughout this decision making process.

The amount of volunteers has been a huge issue. That, plus this wonderful 22 mile road on the Plum Creek property, and the desire for a lot of stage miles were the drivers to the current layout.

If you look at the maps of WV, the traditional stages required a long northward transit from Snowshoe. With the exception of Field and Stream, there is no easy way to combine them in with the new road. I know, I looked at the map to see whether I could find a way to work in Turkeybone, the stage through the Kumbrabow State Forest. Because of the limited ways to get from one place to another through the mountains, you can't without a huge stage mile and time killing transit.

So you could have a four shortish, 5 or 7 mile stages with a lot of transit time to get you significantly less mileage for the event, or you could use the long road, and get a lot of miles. The decision was made to provide a lot of stage miles over two days, with the Plum Creek road in a 14 mile and 22 mile configurations, also with the understanding that while it is the same road, it will look and drive differently at night versus the day. Field and Stream was going to be combined with the run.

The lack of workers cemented things, as the ability to fully staff and communicate between two stages and HQ safely didn't exist, and so Field and Stream fell out of consideration.

Not the ideal set-up, but one that works and will give the competitors a lot of bang for their buck, with as Matt says, lots of stage miles, night stages, and a compact event based out of Snowshoe. It sure as shit isn't the same 6 mile road used over and over.

Next year, hopefully the event will have a staffing level that will allow a larger event, especially in light of the fact that there should be some more new roads open from Plum Creek that will naturally flow out and back from Snowshoe.

Sorry you won't be at the event, as I think you are missing a lot of fun.

Yours in rallying,

Wilson



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2011 03:07PM by wvonkessler.

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wvonkessler
>I would be more than happy to put you in touch with the folks - not John Shirley

yes, please do. i would love to know what day the stage note team drove the roads to create this years book. please give me Peter's email or contact info. email is bbarton at hvc dot rr dot com

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wvonkessler
The amount of volunteers has been a huge issue.

ok, i will go along with that concept. since this has been in the works for a number of years the event budget has to be pretty solidified.

what is the minimal number of volunteers that are needed to run a FULL RWV ? now, what is the number of pre-registered volunteers that signed up? i want real numbers not generalities. as you said you have been in contact with John throughout the whole decision making process.... so lets talk real numbers since this is real and it is happening.

how many hams signed up?
how many were required as stated in the budget?

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wvonkessler
Next year, hopefully the event will

hopefully next year we will get a real rally and not just promises and lies more like it. fuckin used car salesmen and fuckin bitches at the bar that you take home just to find out she has a fake-tit bra on... this is why i dont buy used cars or deal with bitches.

-Brian R. Barton

Tom,

I sent you the following email below because you where obviously unhappy with the change in the event. As a dissatisfied customer I offered you a refund but still the ability to participate. You later replied that wanted to withdraw. You have never called me personally to discuss the situation before posting your accusations so I consider the matter closed and any prospects for future business resolved.

John K. Shirley


Mon 8/8/2011 11:30 AM
Tom,

I have refunded you entry.
You are still welcome to participate fully and will not be withdrawn unless you notify me.

John

Wish i could help volunteer, but i'll be crew-assisting. I'm looking forward to the event. Weather forecast looks to be nice and mild! blues brews and bbq thing going on @ the lodge will make for some happy crewpeople.

Last minute issues means that I now need a co-driver.

Anyone, interested?

Quote
brianallmotor

what is the minimal number of volunteers that are needed to run a FULL RWV ? now, what is the number of pre-registered volunteers that signed up? i want real numbers not generalities. as you said you have been in contact with John throughout the whole decision making process.... so lets talk real numbers since this is real and it is happening.

Tom,

I can only say that when I ran RWV, my total volunteer base was around 80 people, which includes:
- 3 stage teams with sufficient marshals to block the reasonable access places
- about 12-14 ham operators
- sweep teams
- MTC volunteers and service area
- scoring and press coordination
- registration and scrutineering
This does not include the EMS and F&R personnel; with that, it pushes to almost 100 people.

I cannot give any numbers for this year; I am just doing radio work. But I do indeed know better than anyone posting here how very hard it is to get all those poeple lined up. It was my biggest worry BY FAR in the last few weeks running up to each event. (Besides having enough entires!)

Running the traditional Saturday stages in southern Randolph County requires at least 2 full stage crews, and that is if you break the day in half and run 2 sets of stage pairs several times over. It makes very long day for just those 4 roads, a requiring stage teams to be out about 12-14 hours on Saurday. One issue I saw with this year's stages and shared with John was that since the new Friday roads are not accessible 'til evening on Friday, that day has to run 'til very late in the Friday night. That makes it a problem for Saturday, because you have to get the stage crews out on the road no later than 6:30 AM on Saturday to get the normal 55-60 miles or so of Saturday stage miles.

So it became a difficult schedule for volunteers IMO. We closed down the Friday crew time by no later than 9 PM on Friday eve with the old Friday stages; that is simply not possible with the new Friday roads. With the value of the new roads as competition roads, I think the right move was made to make the changes. And when you add in low volunteer numbers, then the decsion is a no-brainer, IMO. But I agree that the lateness of the decision can shake people's confidence in an event.

Sorry you are not coming: I always enjoy conversing with you and your son, but respect your decision.

Mark B.

I'd much rather have an organizer who recognizes an events shortcomings and has the balls to deal with them than one who thinks he is so f'ing awesome that the world will just bend his way and risk everyones safety in the process. I don't think John Shirley is careless or sneaky.

Low volunteer turnout is something we have to live with and I'm not seeing it get any better in the near future. The whole sport revolves around volunteer help and I believe a lot of events will have to modify their formats to suit the staffing availability. Road use is the next bugaboo that seems to get more difficult every year.

It may come to the point competitors will have to furnish a couple of workers in addition to the entry fee. Of course we all see the posts where a driver is begging for a co-driver or service crew help.....

Quote
starion887
One issue I saw with this year's stages and shared with John was that since the new Friday roads are not accessible 'til evening on Friday, that day has to run 'til very late in the Friday night. That makes it a problem for Saturday, because you have to get the stage crews out on the road no later than 6:30 AM on Saturday to get the normal 55-60 miles or so of Saturday stage miles.

there is typically a signature at the bottom of a message.

Mark, now more light is shed on the subject. Roads not accessible til evening on friday... I do agree that competitors, my father and I included, do want more night stages in rally. Heck, a perfect rally would have all of mother natures elements to battle. This is an awesome concept and game plan.

The final itinerary this year is positive in all respects. The stages are long, longer than most any other rally you can shake a stick at. Only a singular service area throughout the event. Short transit distance.

i have spoken my opinion, and my father has let his be known. now-- LETS GO RALLY !

side note, i found a new cave entrance (yesterday).

-Brian R. Barton

Had an awesome weekend at a resort hanging out with friends. Snowshoe is flipping beautiful! A little pricey, but nice things usually are. Rally? What Rally? I almost forgot about that, cept for that dusty car that showed up a couple times to get some tires swapped around and some new brake pads.

The racing was good according to the competitors, but from where I sat, the rally was part of the scenery or just totally missed by non-competitors. Heard lots of crap about why it was or wasn't whatever it was. Cancelled stages, sandwich trucks that should have been sweep trucks, pizza, rogue radio operators, excuses, delays, mountain bike races on transits. A race happened despite all that, but i felt bad for the few rally fans who showed up and won't be back. Kids with fuck-all to do on a weekend drove out there just to get lost in the woods lookin' for a rally. No parc expose, no info at the resort about the rally, sparse info on the website. The public-facing component of this event was nonexistent.

I'll be back to compete next year. Take my money, please. It's only a 5 hour drive for me, and I see this thing has the potential to be one of the best events in the eastern US. Good roads and an awesome rally HQ with plenty of cool stuff in close proximity, what's not to like? Lack of volunteers is not a valid excuse for neglecting the PR though. Local involvement is crucial, and it doesn't show up if it doesn't know about the event. More and better roads aren't secured if we can't show any benefit to the local area. blaah blaah blaah. Same shit as always. I know it's hard. Really hard, but it gets easier with better organization, local help, and successes that build on successes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2011 10:11AM by dirty_d.