Just for reference i believe (do correct me if i'm wrong) Eric Larson only did the Primitive school and 1 rally cross ($300 ish?)
Sean P did the Big 3 day Team O'Neal School (??? $5K)

At the end of Day 2 of NNR they were only 25 seconds apart (after 80 miles)
With Eric on top.
(they both beat my rally debut which was out on those stages by a minute btw!)

So you could very well do a big name school, and finish behind an other rookie who did not do the school.

I think TP had amazing results his first rally and he finished a rally school, but he was already fast from Moto racing (and having the best car on stage by a good measure doesn't hurt)


The school is not going to make you blazing fast on your first event like you got tapped with a magic wand. the school is going to help, IMO you will pick up things faster having gone to a school, but it boils back to seat time. and not all seat time is created equal. (if that was true my mom would be a better drive than me, but she's pretty horrible.)

what you need is meaningful seat time, which you get by competing in rallies, which you can't do, with out a car. as i posted above, both of those guys Beat my first outing on those stages by a minute, and i had driven my car 7K miles by then (all commuting) . you need meaningful seat time!

I hope to never live in a world where everyone is the same as me and share the same viewpoints, sure I think many of the "other" views are crap and only idiots would hold those values as "true" but I know they add spice to life and my life is much better for getting along with them. Also good new ideas do come from this diversity.

In fact I believe getting along with others (even them I dislike) is a rewarding trait.

The internet is a good place to start to practice and John and Keith sure need the practice...

One of my best mentors at work listened to me complain about one of my new co-workers way back in about 1992 - when I was done he said if you want to advance in the world, to lead, to manage or otherwise move beyond entry level jobs or the rank beginner levels in sports/ hobbies you need to learn to deal with others, how to win them over, not throw them under the bus and otherwise always take the high road. It was good advise from a Harvard MBA and seasoned executive.

In the 19 years since then I have advanced quickly in sport, socially and at work. I have watched many of the noisy ornery ones go, first to get the boot in lay offs and such. They never seem to understand why.

I admit there is a bit of fun in gossip or the occasional nit pick but prolonged and constant battles are evil and hurt the parties that choose to participate. Life is not high school, you do not win by getting the most people to side with you - you only lose the things that have real value, such as friendships, respect, wages and opportunities.

Now back to the thread in progress - The intro class sounds really good.

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SeanP
holy shit, what the fawk did I sign up for around here? I was not told that tampax would be required

Driving schools are great if you have the means. If you don't, buy some cones and trial and error until you learn to steer the car with the brake and gas pedal.

its RallyANARCHY....not RallyNiceGuys.


A lot of this I just think is personal preference. Some people can't wait to buy a 'thing' and get their hands on it and play around in it and see what's up and do a little trial and error. Nothing wrong with that

But, if you're not sure exactly what car you want, or can't find what you want right now, but want to do SOMETHING, go to class. Doesn't matter if you're in a DirtFish Subaru or a Tim O'Neils 2wd Focus, you'll learn stuff, you'll get seat time....you'll get sideways. Can't go wrong with that either.


If a $1000/day rally school is going to keep you from rallying due to cost, then you're not going to be able to rally much anyways.

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I've seen a new driver who went to team o'neils have a pretty significant off (not totaled - ran the next day, albeit without a working codriver door, several windows, etc) on the second stage of his first rally.

yup...and at NNR, the highly experienced Paul Eklund rolled his car halfway through day 1....so at any given event, you'll see both ends of the spectrum.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2011 12:37PM by Jon Burke.

Imma say to do the Primitive school like some of the others have mentioned, that is if you are local in the NW and can drive there. Hell, if you take one in Portland I'll even offer to let you stay at my place so you don't have to pay for a hotel for 2 nights if you'd like. But taking a big expensive class right off, meh, seems a bit much to me. Also, the rallyx suggestions are good ones. In fact, if you don't have a DD that you feel comfortable doing at a rallyx, go anyway and get rides with people in their cars. It's amazing how much you can learn just from playing passenger with a handful of different people. There are very few rallycrossers who won't say "hell yeah, get in". It's interesting to experience everyones different driving styles.

i voted to buy....because race car.

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Gravity Fed
i voted to buy....because race car.

On a serious note. I am building a rally car (well have been for what 3 years now... another story)

I did the 2 hour and am doing the 4 hour in September. Signing up for a 3 day later this year.

I can tell you this. That was the best 2 hours behind the wheel. Gravel is nothing like tarmac and the seat time is invaluable. But at the end of the day, you're driving a AWD car - so a lot of it won't transfer to a 2WD.....

But yeah, if you can't afford both a car and a couple classes - how are you going to afford the 1k entry fees, plus everything else you need to rally on a weekend.

---

-Jason



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2011 07:02PM by mack73.

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mack73
But at the end of the day, you're driving a AWD car - so a lot of it won't transfer to a 2WD.....

.

I will disagree with this. In getting a car to rotate, the physics are the same in 2WD vs. AWD. The only difference is how fast you can come out of a corner. You might benefit from some engine braking on throttle lift on turn-in a bit more in AWD, but the concept of Lift-Turn-Brake-Wheelstraight-Throttle are going to be the same.

Sean is right. Seat time sideways is seat time sideways. Especially when everything is new and you're just learning the basics.

I'd offer that I don't know shite about TO school nor Dirtfish. Eklund is really low speed stuff, should be billed as rallyX school. Any expensive school should get the hi-speed stuff so you can wet yourself. If you wash out of rally school then obviously rally aint for you, but there is a world of difference between rally and a school. The whole experience from prep and tech, registration to on stage and the interaction with co-driver and crew is what will show if you have the stuff or not.

The 3rd option not previously mentioned (?) is maybe use the money towards a car rental the first time out. Get a somewhat experienced co-driver and go thru the whole process. Way more than a school, way less than buying a mistake.

I say a buy something suitable to improve upon, do any type of cheap driving event that's reasonably close to you, save your money and spend your time learning all the mechanicals that go into rally cars(get on a service crew, don't underestimate how much you can learn on someone else's dime). By the time you get around to needing a driving school you realize that money could better spent on tires... Or go to the Primitive school like Alex said.

Gene had a really good thought about renting a car and good co driver as "School"

It would be pretty sweet to instead of JUST learning car control, to learn the PROCESS of a rally, in addition to car control.

I dunno...renting a car as a rookie never seemed like such a good idea to me. Even a cheap/slow car won't be cheap to rent for an event, and there's still a chance you're going to wad it up...so then you're still out a lot of money and you can't even salvage what's left of the car and you've got nothing.

You'd learn a huge lesson though, that's for sure.

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Jon Burke
I dunno...renting a car as a rookie never seemed like such a good idea to me. Even a cheap/slow car won't be cheap to rent for an event, and there's still a chance you're going to wad it up...so then you're still out a lot of money and you can't even salvage what's left of the car and you've got nothing.

You'd learn a huge lesson though, that's for sure.

See Jon---that's good thinking...

I don't care what everybody says......you ain't a complete......

wait..
Um

Oh well Good Point.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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heymagic
The 3rd option not previously mentioned (?) is maybe use the money towards a car rental the first time out. Get a somewhat experienced co-driver and go thru the whole process. Way more than a school, way less than buying a mistake.

That is what Jason Staats did at Mt Hood last year. He drove pretty conservatively but fast enough to have fun. He decided he liked it and ended up buying the car he rented and has done a couple more events this year.

I wouldn't do it but it worked out for him.

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shiza

I wouldn't do it but it worked out for him.

Agreed, and that's why I said before this is a very personal decision....it actually takes a bit of 'self insight' to know the right way to go at this point in the game.


School - will I get enough out of it? Is my mind open to new things or am I too stubborn to learn right now?

Buy now - I don't care about anything else, I just want to get something to work on and play in NOW (typical driver's attitude, haha)

Rent - Do I have the self control (and at least minimal driving skills) to keep it on the road but still have enough fun/speed to find out if this is something I want to do.