Group A Tribute

We broke one of these transmissions during a chumpcar 24hour race, but never during a rally.

The 20v engine has other good parts besides the ITB's, the Crank is fully counter weighted with bigger rod bearing journals. The block is also the "best" 4AG block being the newest, strongest and having oil squirters but I don't think this is neccesary for a non-turbo build.

Save that crank for your N/A build it'll be able to rev higher.

@sidewaez
Thanks for the info. I take it the 20V head is better for forced induction coupled with low compression pistons or does the VVT interfere with timing?

On a side note I have the seller down to from $500 to around $350. The less upfront investment the better. I can’t help but draw caution from the fact that he is willing to stoop so low in his price.

Is there any provisions for using different manufactures engines in another manufactures chassis? I have a wooden shelf with two N/A Rotaries, One Turbo rotary putting out 315-350 @ 15Psi, and three extra transmissions. I was going to sell them to fund this project but it would be nice to use what I have a lot of backstock of.

Edit:
After looking at Rally America's rule book I have found that any of my rotary engines get a double whammy in the displacment calculations. According to the rules all applicable multipliers must be used when determining adjusted displacment which means if there was even a class for swapped engines I would not only net the 1.8 multiplier but also the 1.7 for being turbo. I forsee Minimum weights being a issue. Currently My car is sitting at around 2,200 Lbs.

Edit 2: I'm going to have to compile a list of what has changed on this car over the years and attempt to aim for a specific Class. What class type is recommended for a individual who has a car that has your average ricer aftermarket parts EG: KYB shocks, Ingen Intake, meagan exaust, Unidentified equal length long tube header?

Edit 3: It appears there is a Historical class that allows for contemporary modification to 25 year and older cars. This may be a good option.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2011 04:04PM by M4XVLTG3.

Quote
sidewaez
We broke one of these transmissions during a chumpcar 24hour race, but never during a rally.

The 20v engine has other good parts besides the ITB's, the Crank is fully counter weighted with bigger rod bearing journals. The block is also the "best" 4AG block being the newest, strongest and having oil squirters but I don't think this is neccesary for a non-turbo build.

Save that crank for your N/A build it'll be able to rev higher.

Plenty of non-fullcounterweighted cranks have lived fine at 9000+
Its the materials that's more important---steel yes- cast iron---well keep a lid on it. (And "nodular steel" "nood-ular" iron whatever it still can propogate cracks internally.)
Bigger?
Blake we try and break the chatty disease of other wankier forums of only saying vague 'what's" and never why, so if you know its bigger say the sizes.
Early rod journal is 40mm, later is 42mm.
But youse snows swhat?
2mm ain't a big deal unless you are having chronic failures at 40.
A smaller diameter has a slower 'bearing speed" that a larger diameter.

There's a reason Chebby boys liked the older 2" rod journal more than the 2.1 later journal....and there's a solid reason Nascar guys have been using what they call "Honda Journal"....48mm. iT'S LIGHTER---KINDA IMPORTANT AT 9000 RPM AND THE "BEARING SPEED" IS LOWER AND THAT MEANS IT LIVES BETTER...
oF COURSE fawking Caps Lock...... course they have good forged steel cranks..

See there's problems too: get the bigger journal youse gotta have the bigger rods, but then there's an advantage cause they have bigger bolts and ya torque 'em higher:
Connecting Rod 29 ft.lbs + 90 deg (for 4AGE,
4AGELC, 4AFE (88-92) engines only)
Connecting Rod 36 ft.lbs/49 Nm (for 4AF, 4AGEC,
4AGZE engines only


Squirters are nice but if they could add them, any half alert builder can too.
I made a loaner kit so the poor Volvo boys that have excellent B21 or b23 motors with killer FORGED STEEL cranks don't have to fall victim to the chorus chanting in unison "must have squirters, must have squirters...."
And that kit has been all over the USA and Europe too. It just went to Texas and then direct to Italy and now it is in Finland by the Russian border, just gots used over the weekend and should be coming back..
Drill tap done.
NO COMPELLING REASON to worry about counterweights, 2mm journal, or squirters.


I'd be worried about materials and MORE VOLUME!!!!!!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2011 10:13AM by john vanlandingham.

For the con rod bolts, you could also get the ARP set, or SBC pressed in at your machine shop. Then you really don't have to worry about it.

I've always used the non-squirter blocks and the small cranks, but people like to buy that stuff so it's got some value.

the 20 valve head is only good in stock form, for having some low end grunt and top end power, it's a gimmick.

Quote
Dazed_Driver
For the con rod bolts, you could also get the ARP set, or SBC pressed in at your machine shop. Then you really don't have to worry about it.

Oh, really?

I would worry myself till i peed my pants to just have rod bolts pressed in.
And I may be wrong but I have presssed a couple of rod bolts into one or 2 rods and I have a sneaky feeling that it might be a bit difficult to press a bolt 0.375" dia into a hole 0.354" . Sure .021" isn't a lot but generally there is about .0005 or one red c**t hair more clearance so .021 is just about 40 times too much press fit.......

And that might worry us....

Further---ANYTIME a press in bolt is pressed in, anybody who wants the actually eventually RUN the motor would dial bore gage on a Tobin-Arp or Sunnen machine the roundness of the big end hole....
And be prepared to re-size the big end.


But for you, don't worry.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Well however the fuck they install them, heat up the rod, and freeze the bolt. Stop being a troll.

How was it put?

"With all due respect, Gargle my nuts?"

Quote
Dazed_Driver
Well however the fuck they install them, heat up the rod, and freeze the bolt. Stop being a troll.

How was it put?

"With all due respect, Gargle my nuts?"

Yes by another asshole newb who at least has a whopping 1.3 stages under his belt.


And:
No Timmy, unless they are as big a idiot as...

Oh wait...that wouldn't be nice...

Why don't you stick to thinks you actually know about instead of writing utter pap?

YOU should have the sense even at your age to know not to speak about anything technical.....we really don't care if you fuck up your stuff cause you will never do a stage until your a jet pilot or a surgeon or a professional photographer or...what-ever.

But just talking mindless crap doesn't help anybody...

Why do you write shit?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.