Group A Tribute

Well, I meant the car to see if you would pull pics from a few of the corolla rally builds I know of (like a bot would do)

However, you pass, haha. Go look for the TRD Bible. It will be your best help.

Here we go. This is about four years ago in Lloret Del Mar Spain. Euro beaches are bewbie central.

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M4XVLTG3
Here we go. This is about four years ago in Lloret Del Mar Spain. Euro beaches are bewbie central.

(having spent 2 years in France, very often near the coasts....)

Know whatcha mean...


So Pics or ban! (of the nice ladies sunning themselves.)


As for your project.


but knowledge must be in a usable form, and must be specific enough that a reasonable transfer of a specific idea to a somewhat more general application is critical. Timmy above believes the TRD "Bible" will be your best help. Unfortunately, believing in Bibles leads to eventual cognitive dissonance and paralysis as virtually everything in it is lists of parts which have not been available for 25 years, and which were impossibly expensive.

Thus the "Bible' is no guide for a person today.

And worse it was mostly the dreaded GpA stuff---extremely limited results for huge expeditures of money and effort.

But what to do?
The AE86 is basically Toyota's Escort MkII. It is everything the Escort shoulda been--simple , reliable and a solid foundation for a project.

So a wise guy might ask: why was the Escort--and still is---such a excellent car and have such enduring sucess (and the poor AE86, every bit as nice, only spotty popularity when it was new)..
Indeed looking to the here and now, why has the corolla had such enormous popularity in the best rally series in the world: Finnish F-cup?

Look here:
http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,4777,page=1

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Skye
Skye Nott
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Skye [ PM ]
Re: Ford Motorsport Manual Scans
September 13, 2006 11:09PM Registered: 12/18/2005
Posts: 427
Thanks a lot to Paddy for the scans and Jason for the packaging!!

Just a reminder that the Escort (original) book is here:

[www.rallyanarchy.com] ..slash.. EscortRallyPrep
(obfuscated to prevent web crawlers from finding it)
There's an HTML version in the html/ directory there.

Skye



Undercover Canadian evildoer
A parked rally project gathers plenty of moss
www.rallyrace.net

Print out the whole thing, study it.
That book is everybodys best source of information---with of course revisions for current rules..

The Escort was and is a Sooooper Bitchin kick ass, really phenomenal car because they were able to build them for Gp4, substituting stronger gearbox, axles, motor, brakes, and importantly shocks and towers and LONG links which made that solid axle work predictably....

Here's a really excellent thread:
http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,29666,29723#msg-29723

particularly a scan of 2 pages referring to the Escort Rally Prep Book:



Read both pages but note about 3/4 the way down the first column on the second page.
"Then they produced their master work Escort Rally Preparation......
156 solid gold pages..."


Use that book as your guide and you will have a phenomenally fun car...

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

John, he wanted to build a Group A replica. Thus, the Group A bible would be pretty damn good guide...

For a modern car, of course not. If I missed the switch from Group A to modern, then my bad, I was mostly skimming...

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Dazed_Driver
John, he wanted to build a Group A replica. Thus, the Group A bible would be pretty damn good guide...

For a modern car, of course not. If I missed the switch from Group A to modern, then my bad, I was mostly skimming...

No Timmy, he thought he wanted to do a "GroupA" replica..
He has since responded he really had no idea what Group A was---He made references to 'back in the GpB days---"...

Why don't you let the adults who can read have a nice conversation....
maybe go turn a bolt on your car. Ya know just 10 minutes a day and that thing will be done in just 7-8 more years.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Nevermind, I'm not helping you ruin another thread.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2011 04:38AM by Dazed_Driver.

If it's just a street car you want to take to car shows.... Pick a livery you like, paint it, toss some period looking cage in it, an old rally computer and enjoy! No one's gonna piss on you for not having the correct stamp on a brake drum.

There was also a toyota 4AGE engine building page that broke down different mods and combinations in 10 and 20 horse increments. followed modifications all the way up to some of the stuff performed on the formula atlantic cars.

here it is
http://www.billzilla.org/4agmods.htm#160hp

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Dazed_Driver
Nevermind, I'm not helping you ruin another thread.

Thank you. You just skimming, investing nothing and just blurting out whatever confused whimiscal thought that you're confused about---because you were skimming----- really doesn't add much.
This guy might actually want to put a car together---maybe you could let him ask and we can help him

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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aj_johnson
There was also a toyota 4AGE engine building page that broke down different mods and combinations in 10 and 20 horse increments. followed modifications all the way up to some of the stuff performed on the formula atlantic cars.

Yeah, Billzilla. Like the Ford Gp4 stuff, Bill's info is detail in the specific engough, the foundation is laid down clear enough---that you can transfer the ideas onward to whatever...unless there's incorrect rod bearings in the box...

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

The way I look at it, you've got a bunch of options...

* Group A 'Tribute' Show car - as someone else said, pick a livery you like, put a period-correct cage and computer in, and call it good.

* Group A 'Tribute' Rally car - pick a livery you like, use modern parts (but not too modern - no shiny new AP calipers etc), and actually be able to race the thing. Yeah, you may be using a Toyota 'truck' rear axle instead of the exact homologated part, but who's really going to care? You can still set it up the same way the group A car was (I assume they 4-linked it), etc. Yep, you'll have to meet modern safety requirements, but that's about it.

* Group A 'Replica' car - start with the TRD bible, then start scouring the ends of the earth for hard copies of the homologated parts - so you can have copies custom made. Probably everything (and more) done in the Group B resto linked above, aside from the actual shell restoration. Lots of $$$$$$ for details that most won't care about, and those that do, will bitch that you don't actually have the actual homologated parts, but rather copies of.

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john vanlandingham
unless there's incorrect rod bearings in the box...

That sir, is rude, underhanded, below the belt, and funny.

I never thought these cars were all that pretty. their beauty was in the way they drive. Drive the piss out of it, don't do a replica show car. Those are for sissy's who never bothered to get out of their office chair.

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Aaron Luptak
The way I look at it, you've got a bunch of options...

* Group A 'Tribute' Show car - as someone else said, pick a livery you like, put a period-correct cage and computer in, and call it good.

* Group A 'Tribute' Rally car - pick a livery you like, use modern parts (but not too modern - no shiny new AP calipers etc), and actually be able to race the thing. Yeah, you may be using a Toyota 'truck' rear axle instead of the exact homologated part, but who's really going to care? You can still set it up the same way the group A car was (I assume they 4-linked it), etc. Yep, you'll have to meet modern safety requirements, but that's about it.

* Group A 'Replica' car - start with the TRD bible, then start scouring the ends of the earth for hard copies of the homologated parts - so you can have copies custom made. Probably everything (and more) done in the Group B resto linked above, aside from the actual shell restoration. Lots of $$$$$$ for details that most won't care about, and those that do, will bitch that you don't actually have the actual homologated parts, but rather copies of.

Or drop the Group A idea. No privateer (in the Rest of the World) at the time like, supported, agreed with or advocated for GpA---and naturally even fewer for GpN.

A real tribute would be to build it well (and nobody gives a shit or will even NOTICE if there's a Ford Type 9 box or whatever without crawling around and obsessing ) and then driving it hard. Basically the way the Finns eventually evolved their class struture---which allow Corollas and Starlets and a whole host of OTHER cars which because of the STOOOOOPID Homologation crap, never had a chance to shine...


(What you guys don't understand too well it seems is the whole "process of Homologation" is a very exacting, very crucial part of the life of a rally car---and depending on if the person at say Lancia is awake or not, can make easy of make difficult the process of running the car...
Ford, Lancia, Opel were champions of the Homologation game listing ever gear set, every axle imaginable, pages and pages and pages of brake set ups.....Saab for example were typical plodding, honest Square-head during the years they were serious. ( I'm friends with 2 people involved in the Group A homologation of the Saab 96, and have spoken at length with the guy who did the actual paperwork---very interesting that from 1968 thru 1982 on the Group 1, and 2 forms, the dimesnions of stock ports were +- 0,8mm, and exhaust outlet was shown to be 32mm for the Siamesed port.
Suddenly, 2 years after the Factory Rally Department has been closed, the ports in the Group A papers are now +1,8 and the exhaust is listed as "Integral exhaust manifold" Not applicable---so 44mm outlet".... Uh huh.

As an example how Ford and Fiat/Lancia and Opel played the game, all 3 homologated and then made 5000 cars all with lumpiest possible cams, and 2 downdrafts 44 Webers on the Ford and Fiat/Lancia and 2 sidedraft Solex 45s on the one model Ascona B.... these car were made to the letter of the rule and were Gp1---then Group N or "production" of the time.


Since there was 5000 of the OEM way bad things, anybody COULD build any Escort, Ascona or 131 to that spec for Gp1 or Gp2.............

And 2 x 44 or 2 x 45 carbies is a HUGE HUGE!!!! advantage against the then standard little carbs with 32 x 32 or whatever.


So the process was a huge pain in the ass, and locked a spec forever--unless the manufacturer added amendments later like Saab did as a service to their loyal owners, but since the Japanese are obsessed with new new new---they never followed thru later....

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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aj_johnson

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john vanlandingham
unless there's incorrect rod bearings in the box...

That sir, is rude, underhanded, below the belt, and funny.

I never thought these cars were all that pretty. their beauty was in the way they drive. Drive the piss out of it, don't do a replica show car. Those are for sissy's who never bothered to get out of their office chair.

Drive the piss out of it is right, that's the best way to honor a car. Stick with it and improve YOURSELF as you improve the basic car...

What are you finding about the bearing dilemna???

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.