Group A Tribute

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john vanlandingham


What are you finding about the bearing dilemna???

Got the wrong ones (they fit the 20v and 10v na motors), can't find the reciept, was about to order another set from summit (literally credit card in hand) got any suggestions?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2011 12:16PM by aj_johnson.

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Aaron Luptak
The way I look at it, you've got a bunch of options...

* Group A 'Tribute' Show car - as someone else said, pick a livery you like, put a period-correct cage and computer in, and call it good.

* Group A 'Tribute' Rally car - pick a livery you like, use modern parts (but not too modern - no shiny new AP calipers etc), and actually be able to race the thing. Yeah, you may be using a Toyota 'truck' rear axle instead of the exact homologated part, but who's really going to care? You can still set it up the same way the group A car was (I assume they 4-linked it), etc. Yep, you'll have to meet modern safety requirements, but that's about it.

* Group A 'Replica' car - start with the TRD bible, then start scouring the ends of the earth for hard copies of the homologated parts - so you can have copies custom made. Probably everything (and more) done in the Group B resto linked above, aside from the actual shell restoration. Lots of $$$$$$ for details that most won't care about, and those that do, will bitch that you don't actually have the actual homologated parts, but rather copies of.

Yeah, this is basically my advice to you. Although, I would tweak the Tribute Rally car point a bit:


If you want a "replica" that will be fun to drive around, and would like to enter a rally or two, but not sure about committing to building a full fledged rally car, wait on the more major mods.


Cage it, and get a skid plate and underbody protection

Run stock suspension for now. Pick up some new shocks. Bilstein USED to make some for the ae86's... I dunno if they still do.

Get some more aggressive brake pads

Throw some cams in, change out the catback,

Paint it up in the TRD livery and run it.

If/when you decide to like it, and want to make a more competitive car, start looking at the 4 link mod, brakes, and a fresh built engine.



That is what I would do, if I did it over again. (minus the TRD scheme )

Good Morning again,
@John: This is a lot of good info and will take me a while to absorb all of this. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

@Aaron: To tell you the truth I’m warming up to voting on a livery with the guys and use modernish parts. What’s the point of doing anything like this if it can’t be raced? That’s akin to buying a Ford GT and never taking it to the track. A full replica is right out. I don’t think any of us have the time to spend years hunting down parts they are either destroyed or in some personal collection by now. Just slapping the paint on it is against everything our group believes in. There is NO point in having a shiny fast looking paint job if it can’t get down and boogie. We were thinking last night about re-spraying it the Blue it came manufactured, slapping the GTS 16-Valve sticker on the doors, and call the exterior good to go. I think that as long as we prep this thing by the books that it’s going to be a impressive car. We are pretty much split over either copying a Group A livery or pulling the exterior back to a OEM condition.

@A.J.: Bill’s site is awesome! We found this yesterday and believe we can get 200HP out of this ol’ blue top engine. This site is more than we could have ever hoped for as it dives in the detail that we so desperately crave. I can’t wait to hear this 4A-GE Blue top cammed.

I would also like to mention that the activity on this site has suppressed my peers and I. We didn’t expect this site to the most active and helpful.

@Dazed
Seeing as how it’s a GTS we have a few things going for us in the fact that it has Disks all around and unlike its SR5 brothers is actually has a 4 link rear suspension setup. Unfortunately we have also found that parts (read linkages/control arms) for the rear ends on GTSs are notoriously rare and expensive. I almost feel like I should have everything on the back end measured and printed by my Uncles shop in case we have to make a reproduction of the part. Nothing pisses me off more than not being able to find parts when I break them. Other than the rear end still share the same McPherson front end with other SR5s.

Quote
aj_johnson

Quote
john vanlandingham


What are you finding about the bearing dilemna???

Got the wrong ones (they fit the 20v and 10v na motors), can't find the reciept, was about to order another set from summit (literally credit card in hand) got any suggestions?

AH! Now we see the violence inherent in the system!

Let's shift this back to your thread.....and not sully this nice rwd thread up with all this Teutonic tampering.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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john vanlandingham
.....and not sully this nice rwd thread up with all this Teutonic tampering.

Nothing wrong with Teutonic tampering. Just saying.

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M4XVLTG3
Seeing as how it’s a GTS we have a few things going for us in the fact that it has Disks all around and unlike its SR5 brothers is actually has a 4 link rear suspension setup. Unfortunately we have also found that parts (read linkages/control arms) for the rear ends on GTSs are notoriously rare and expensive. I almost feel like I should have everything on the back end measured and printed by my Uncles shop in case we have to make a reproduction of the part. Nothing pisses me off more than not being able to find parts when I break them. Other than the rear end still share the same McPherson front end with other SR5s.

Hey Jason, As a fellow corolla owner I appreciate your project.

The SR5 and GT-S Corolla's do share the same chassis, suspension, Transmission, engine block. Spares pretty easy to come by for these cars. Don't worry about remaking stock links because they're everywhere.

The worst part of the car is the GT-S rear Axle, It's very fragile, rare and equally expensive, if you're serious at all about rally or making decent power you'll want to upgrade it to something stronger and more common like the Dana 30 from a volvo or an 8" toyota pickup rearend.

The stock transmission is also pretty lousy as are the front brakes and spindles, changing these are a bit more invovled though.

@sidewaez
Thank you for clarifying that. When I was reading Bill’s page he made it sound like it was the linkages or the mounts. When I bought this Toyota I never could have Imagined that it was so Iconic. A buddy of mine said about a hour ago said he found a A4-GE black top on craigslist. A quick search on the net shows this is a 20 Valve version with 11:1 Compression ratio 9k RPM engine that peaks 119 ft-lb at 5600RPM. How do you feel about this engine? Do you have a recommendation on a good Transmission to use that will take the abuse of amateur rally?

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M4XVLTG3
@sidewaez
Thank you for clarifying that. When I was reading Bill’s page he made it sound like it was the linkages or the mounts. When I bought this Toyota I never could have Imagined that it was so Iconic. A buddy of mine said about a hour ago said he found a A4-GE black top on craigslist. A quick search on the net shows this is a 20 Valve version with 11:1 Compression ratio 9k RPM engine that peaks 119 ft-lb at 5600RPM. How do you feel about this engine? Do you have a recommendation on a good Transmission to use that will take the abuse of amateur rally?

[resident actual competition engine builder mode on]

Nice but. Cams, and ITBs, compression and a 16v is more than good enough.
I ---in agreement with "Billzilla" ----say the 20v carries problems with it: smaller diam lifters, weird ass cams. It was done for a ROAD car to have driavability and a screaming motor. A 1.6s is going to go good---if it does, not by the BHP it makes but by the revs---which get geared down about 5:1--which makes the torque...
Nice but it is what it is and that's it.
ANY engine it's mainly CCC-compression, Cams , Carbies.

You have the 16v, make it work---seems to have worked real good on millions of other motors without going 5 valve.

and dun't forget :Compression is inflexibly linked to cam duration specifically Intake Closing After Bottom Dead Center


Get some pistons in a "bored as big as you dare, maybe stroked if ya can" 4AGE with ITBs [/ resident actual competition engine builder mode off]
OH!
(UPS just came with 2 sets of CP forged pistons for 1 Volvo turbo project in Norway and a Hyundai Geniysis Coupie rwd turbo thing in The People's Republic of China----The Volvo is using my JVAB rods, the Hyundai gets rods made in same factory in Sichuan province as my rods but boxed differently-----I get around!)


And for the trans the worldwide solution has always been Ford "Type 9" 5 speed---there is a belhousing adaptor in UK for aroud $300..

Type 9 is the most common gearbox for rally in the world---by a factor of maybe 20

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Yeah, you have a great motor already in the car. Stick with it. It will be enough to definitely put a smile on your face. If it ends up not being fast enough, then sit on your hands till they get numb and then try to drive. I call it "The Stranger"

Just kidding. You can always add boost.

Just use the stock box for now. As far as I am aware, Adam and Blake haven't killed a tranny (Is this still correct?) and neither has Andy down under.

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aj_johnson
Yeah, you have a great motor already in the car. Stick with it. It will be enough to definitely put a smile on your face. If it ends up not being fast enough, then sit on your hands till they get numb and then try to drive. I call it "The Stranger"

Just kidding. You can always add boost.

I thought about boosting my car. I think if I ever have to build another 4ag before this shell is toast, I'm boosting it.

After reading all the responses about the black top I have decided to not do this swap. There is still one more factor that is making me consider snatching this engine up. I saw various websites average $1600 for a ITB setup. The seller of the Blacktop 4A-GE is looking for $500 of which I am sure I can negotiate him down to $400 since he does not have a ECU or harness. I have found that Blacktop ITBs can be implemented with the use of a adaptor plate and there are no flow or tuning issues by doing such. I’m confident in my ability to sell what is left of the engine for $300 in the NM, AZ area. Not to bad in my opinion.

Edit: Average commercial price of a adaptor is around $250. That bumps the total cost to around $350.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2011 11:51AM by M4XVLTG3.

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M4XVLTG3
After reading all the responses about the black top I have decided to not do this swap. There is still one more factor that is making me consider snatching this engine up. I saw various websites average $1600 for a ITB setup. The seller of the Blacktop 4A-GE is looking for $500 of which I am sure I can negotiate him down to $400 since he does not have a ECU or harness. I have found that Blacktop ITBs can be implemented with the use of a adaptor plate and there are no flow or tuning issues by doing such. I’m confident in my ability to sell what is left of the engine for $300 in the NM, AZ area. This means, aside from unforeseen costs, I can convert to ITBs for around $150. Not to bad in my opinion.

Excellent plan. Didya get the PM I sent you?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I sure did John. I am writing a reply right now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2011 02:14PM by M4XVLTG3.