Potti mouth: Descriptive notes vs. numeric notes

The problem is not when you make yoru own notes, it's when you use supplied notes... If you always could make your own notes, then you could do whatever works best for you, and over time refine your system until it's perfect.

The notes I've been supplied with have been in two formats: Tall Pines/Black Bear are descriptive stage note. NEFR are Jemba. At Tall Pines we also get 2 pass recce, which is enough to make yoru own notes from scratch... but why would you when the descriptive stage notes are so good and very consistant? Well it's great practice, but kind of stressful, and what you end up with probably isn't as good as the supplied! So we generally use the supplied note, and add pace type info... position on road over crests surface info, etc. With the NEFR Jemba notes, we find that there's often too much info, ideally we'd take a lot of the crap out, add our own crap, split up corners thathey call as one corner that is really two, and probably end up with something reletively similar tyo what we end up with at Tall Pines.. howvere at NEFR you only get one pass recce, notr really enought to mess that much with the notes, becasue the downside is if you fuck them up, or make them inconsistant then you pay for it later if you are committed to the notes... so what we've found it best to do is leave the Jemba notes alone... after 2 or 3 stages I get used to them and commit more and more as the rally goes on.

When we go to rallies that don't supply notes - Pierce-Neige, Biae-Des-Challour, Defi, Lannark, Gallway etc.. we're lucky that all of these have 2 pass recce and we make our own notes... but, we've been spolied and had notes supplied for the last "x" rallies, now we've forgotten how to make notes consistantly... we generally start off sort of blah... and get better and more consistant as we go along. our own notes generally end up looking like Tall Pines descriptive notes, though not as good... we probably adopt this style as it's the one we're most familiar with.

Consitancy is probably the most important thing with notes.. but when you are forced to switch back and forth between systems it's difficult.

Reading a map - I'm probably one of the few here that can say they've been there, done that, both as a dirver, and navi (co-driver). We did this in the UK when I used to road rally, it really works very well once you get good at it... kind of hard to tell about things like crests... I have a picture of my mini about 8' off the ground.. I remember being wound out in 4th gear, navi calling straight, straight, straight, x-road straight... I think... "why are all those people watching at a x-road straight across"... navi look up... "JUMP!!" in the picture we both look like young giraffs with our necks stretched out (young becauise it was 30 years ago), trying to see where we're going to land. I remember one time when I had a really good experienced navi for the night (had done Lombard RAC a couple of times).. it got really foggy and I started to slow down, he says "don't slow down, you're supposed to go quicker when it gets foggy, evereone else can slow down".. first time being fully committed to corners being called from a map! We ended up 4th OA... he siad we'd have been 10 minutes faster if I hadn't kept using the handbrake!

OK I'll shudup now!

-Martin.

reading notes from a map is crazy!! took me a while to figure out what this is and what it was for....)

http://www.nickygrist.com/don-barrow-twin-bulb-poti-lamp-with-rheostat-703-p.asp

(mr, morrison, did you intentionally call this thread 'potti mouth' on purpose? )



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2011 01:29PM by Jon Burke.

I tempted to try and get gorman maps and try out a Poti and jeana calling notes off the map ... maybe on the super short stage ... probably not though , really wish i had done that at Mendocino as it would have upped her fun factor.

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A1337STI
I tempted to try and get gorman maps and try out a Poti and jeana calling notes off the map ... maybe on the super short stage ... probably not though , really wish i had done that at Mendocino as it would have upped her fun factor.

the key thing is good maps first. The Pommes have "Ordnance Survey" maps which have been drawn and revised originally by British Army Artillery officer students since I believe the 1800s, probably the best maps in the world.
The pre Mertic "1 Inch to the Mile" type is like this'


Then like everything else here, the biggest problem: practice and reinforment.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Ya i was thinking of getting some maps of the forest north and west of reno going towards Truckee. and having jeana call notes off that. but we got lazy too many nights and stayed in watching hells kitchen and what not..

We have found a few areas to write our own notes and then practice driving / calling notes, etc. (I think part of the reason why Jeana has been soo good even in her first rally)

Bill Rodgers was kind enough to share with me some of his 1 inch mile maps of england , maps he actually used in a rally, the notations they made, and his Poti at Mendocino...

I sorta hope Mendocino stays a blind rally so we can do the map + poti thing next year..

ugh is the week over yet? i want to work on my car I'm going to drive around roads i've been itching to check out...

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john vanlandingham
The key thing is good maps first. Then like everything else here, the biggest problem: practice and reinforment.

I have yet to find any maps, in Canada at least, that are even remotely accurate or current enough for this sort of use. It is easy to think of roads as being static, but in our neck of the woods they certainly aren't.

Sat imagery from Google earth might be the next 'step' in this, it has certainly helped me when looking for roads or doing basic route-book set-up.

i have the last few years of stage notes for IR and thankfully, live about 15 minutes from them

Yes that's what we used ordinance survey maps and a poti when road rallying in the UK... I think I still have a couple with routes marked out on them.

-Martin.

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Morison

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john vanlandingham
The key thing is good maps first. Then like everything else here, the biggest problem: practice and reinforment.

I have yet to find any maps, in Canada at least, that are even remotely accurate or current enough for this sort of use. It is easy to think of roads as being static, but in our neck of the woods they certainly aren't.

Sat imagery from Google earth might be the next 'step' in this, it has certainly helped me when looking for roads or doing basic route-book set-up.

Agreed. Central BC the same. I stumbled onto a County Sherriff, or he stumbled onto us (5 of us in our cars) and he asked direct : "Whatcher boys doing? Having a rally?" well he were kinda busted so tell the truth to the degree needed , right, so I said we were looking for some twisty roads with a dead end so we could safely block it and get a little safe practice, but all we had for a map was a single sheet for all Western Washington....

He says "Oh nop you gotta have one a these..." and pulls out a 1" to the mile Forest Service "Fire map" and spread it on the hood of his truck and showed up "you take the left fork up there and it goes up to..." and showed us roads in a plateau that bordered on Mt Rainier National Park so all the roads ended and nothing could get in. "Single entrance, easy to block, and nice climb and twisty. You boys have fun and use your heads"

Naturally we about fainted....I asked where we could get the 1" Fire map and he said "You can only get them at the counter at each Ranger Station"

$3.00...Great maps......

But out of National Forests, rotsa ruck.

When we did the read the maps it was in Capitol Forest and it is a ORV recreational area and well mapped.

But other parts of WA or Maine or Michigan forget it...at least when you are not local.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
Jon Burke
(mr, morrison, did you intentionally call this thread 'potti mouth' on purpose? )

um... yes.

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Morison

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Jon Burke
(mr, morrison, did you intentionally call this thread 'potti mouth' on purpose? )

fawkin A, man .

Translated that for you into potti-mouth

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Recently i have been paying way to much attention to how david higgins does his notes. They are using a 6-1 corner scale just like Jemba but have a great deal of descriptive terms thrown in there.

Best example i can find right now:



Some where there is incar from Higgins and Robbie Durant that is really good.

you can get the USGS quadrant maps at REI (I refuse to shop there as they donate to the get the motorcycle trails eliminated fund) and Marmot supply, or any good outdoor store. They are very good, may be the 1" per mile ones you speak of. Those are the maps I have used to find roads for us to play on.

I like my notes like Higgins. numbers 1-6 and lots of descriptors.

Figured out where all the Higgins and Durant incar was, they are all videos Robbie has been tagged in on facebook if anyone is looking for more. http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1628916375262&comments&set=t.545912493&type=1