What SHOULD you be allowed to do in a control zone?

Here's a fun question to toss some ideas around: What SHOULD you be allowed to do in a control zone?

Obvious things:
-Anything that impedes the progress of the control is out, like pulling up to the line and deciding to change a tire when you're next.
-The current rules say clean windshield and lights and that's it. So there's that out of the way.

The floor is open. Discuss!

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

MTC, Regroup, Finish, O Control = take care of business and GTFO. Do not get out of the car.

ATC/Start Control, if you're within 5 minutes of your start time, nothing. If the stage is delayed, you can do anything that would not prevent you from moving the car in a moment's notice (i.e. no tire changing or anything else that would have a wheel in the air). You can open the hatch/trunk to retrieve personal items, open the hood to check fluids/cool the motor.

I think you should be able to do anything you want provided you are not either holding up the rally, blocking other competitors/officials/emergency crews, or changing your road position without the agreement of the other competitors.

It would really depend on the logistics of the rally what you could try. At a rally with a delay you might be able to change a tire or fix that turbo or whatever you can. At a rally like tall pines or Rally Mexico where you have just enough time to get your safety gear on before you have to start racing your chance to fix things is minimal if not non existent.

I just thought about it and part of the answer points to the reasoning behind the differences in RA and NRS/FIA timing.

RA calculates transit off of finish, so every competitor has the same amount of time to work on their car between stages.

NRS/FIA uses bogey time, so if you're a fast competitor, you're afforded extra minutes to service your car between stages.

If you allowed work in the control, then you give that advantage back to fast teams under the RA timing system.

I think nothing.
Properly running rallies should have no time to do anything anyhow.
Unless we're talking about when things don't or aren't going right. Then the subject of control zone comes into play. Once you get your check in and ideal start on your card are you considering in the control or is it once you've physically passed the ATC flag?

What problem you trying to solve Anders?

Only thing I've seen is rules Nazis interperting the "No WORK" wording to mean you can't even LOOK at anything..ie "pop the hood and look is work"

Which of course is idiotic.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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By now it should be pretty obvious to everyone we do this for fun...no fortunes to be made, so...

As long as someone doesn't block another competitor or emergency vehicle who cares? Everyone is somewhat safe in a control zone. If a competitor has to pull forward out of a control zone to fix a busted whatever they then become a bit of a risk as someone will be going by in a few seconds at warp 6 or better. They may even pull forward and not even make the shoulder thus blocking the stage.

I would stipulate that no one other than competitors touch the car (other than pushing) and tools must be carried on board. No service crews allowed..that evens the playing field for the lesser monied teams. Other cars can help if desired and other cars tools can be used just no outside mechanical help.

I would think that anything you can do with paper towels, duct tape, zip ties, windex, water, a flashlight, a hammer, and a prybar should be fair game.


So, you could open up the hood and look, clean windows, tape things back into place, zip tie underbody/wires etc, wash parts with water/fill radiator, bang body panels back or provide wheel clearance, etc.

Then again, maybe also wrenches only used in a clockwise rotation, lol.

Basically, try to prevent people from taking parts OFF so they dont have to wait to put them back ON. That kind of stuff should have been done before they got in the control perhaps?

What happens if your late to the control? Don't you just get penalties? I'm assuming there is some sort of buffer period when you can be late till your time barred?

Anything to do with Cameras / recording devices should be allowed.

I have to get out and open a rear door to turn on one of my cameras, sometimes I miss out on footage because i failed to turn it on before the control zone.

We are all here for fun but we can still have rules. at seed 9 last year i really had to check on an axle / brake, so i decided to back out of the control zone (Penalty) then i checked, realized i had a bent axle and sent everyone ahead of me so i wouldn't hold them up. it was 1 stage to go, so i said F-It i'll run the stage and see if the car limps through.

it did the rules and procedures we have in place worked great. I got a penalty, but i was able to back out and check on my car...

I'm sticking with nothing.
If the rally is running on time, there is what 3-4 minutes between check in time and ideal start time?
If you 'need' to do something, do it before checking into the ATC and incur a time penalty for being late. It's there for a reason. You broke/bent/etc something because you went off the road/hit something/have shoddy prep work, etc and it may cost you a penalty to repair. Name of the game.

If you start allowing people to do shit in the control you'll get more people pulling N Iorio where they intentionally fuck around so they can't start on their minute and gain a competitive advantage by gaining an extra minute dust window.

If the concern is for times when the stage is delayed and people want to be able to work on their car instead of just twiddling thumbs and shooting the shit for 30-40 minutes, make a specific allowance for that.

Oh, if you're only in the control for <10 minutes, I agree with Grant.


I thought this was while you were all queued up waiting to go. (which could be awhile depending on how many cars entered/are still running)

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Dazed_Driver
I thought this was while you were all queued up waiting to go. (which could be awhile depending on how many cars entered/are still running)

That should only happen if the stage is delayed.
If the transit time is excessive, you sometimes end up with everyone queued up waiting to enter the control, but then you're still on transit. It's not til you give time card to control worker, get your arrival time and ideal start time that you are in the control. You should be ready to go at that point in time, full geared up and prepared to start in the next couple of minutes. I think it's usually 3 so by time people write on cards and such you should only have 120-150 seconds before you start the stage.

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NoCoast

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Dazed_Driver
I thought this was while you were all queued up waiting to go. (which could be awhile depending on how many cars entered/are still running)

That should only happen if the stage is delayed.
If the transit time is excessive, you sometimes end up with everyone queued up waiting to enter the control, but then you're still on transit. It's not til you give time card to control worker, get your arrival time and ideal start time that you are in the control. You should be ready to go at that point in time, full geared up and prepared to start in the next couple of minutes. I think it's usually 3 so by time people write on cards and such you should only have 120-150 seconds before you start the stage.

The in-control backup depends on how the schedule is set (at least for RA timing system). If the schedule is set by bogey time, and you have a 20+ mile stage, you could see cars running 5-10 minutes faster than bogey, and subsequently having 5-10 minutes to wait inside the control after check-in, if the rally is running on time.

Check tire pressures?

Basically, need to be ready on the appropriate minute when requested. If you're at the front of the line and things are delayed, you ned to be aware of what's going on around you and be ready to get in the car when the stage crews says "let's get ready to go!"

If not ready when the stage is ready? Maybe a delay of stage penalty?

There is an interesting question of what is considered a control zone.

Under Rally America, once you've checked in you are considered to be in the control zone, under CARS the control zone is the defined area. So, in Canada if you are in the first three or four on the road and there is a delay starting the stage you car caught in the control zone where you can't work on your car but the rest of the field that is outside of the physical control zone can't.

The reason - as was told to me by someone who wrote the rule - for not allowing work in a control zone is because of the crowded, chaotic and 'active' nature of the physical space. A lot of people trying to do a lot of things and having a crew work on the car only increases the dangers. (Doesn't always but it won't make it safer)

Similarly, CARS has a 10 minute penalty for reversing in a control zone. That is purely because of the lack of visibility out of the rear of cars and the naturally congested nature of a control zone.

I'm with Grant. Nothing should be allowed when in the control zone. Extending the control zone to all cars checked in is an equaliser for time to 'work' on a car but becomes unenforceable if the entire field is stacked.