POLL: Unifiied rules - is it possible?

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Dazed_Driver
Oh, don't mind him, he hates change.

No, I hate stupidity.

Only a very stupid person would suggest I hate change.

You would think that by sheer chance occasionally something you say or write would have a near statistical chance of being worthwhile, and not banal, obvious, insightful, amusing, something other than bullshit.

But no.. Why don't you go back to being a fighter pilot or a fireman opr a doctor or a photographer, or whatever the fuck it is, and let adults have a little conversation about stuff they are concerned with.

You have nothing to do with any of this.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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heymagic
The timing issue is valid. Its confusing for everyone, especially novice competitors and workers. I think we've finally gotten rid of Foresprings sytem out here.

RallyMoto never really went over except at one event so isn't much of a concern, sadly.

Rules need to be flexible to allow what works for regional differences. Safety rules and car prep rules need to be pretty close among the 3.

Just think of the juxtaposition of two thoughts:
on the one hand we expect people to do with working as a team to drive a car as fast as they dare down a theoretically narrow twisty slippery road they have maybe never seen, maybe at night is a supposedly powerful car and manage with information arriving in all the 5 senses in a virtual flood of perceptions changing every couple of tens of meters.

On the other we are expected to believe the very same people cannot cope with some slight variations in a few written rules in events that they voluntarily entered in the--to them---wild and exotic place away from their normal stomping grounds, and thus every aspect must by design be identical..


Gene's right. Rules must be flexible. People must be flexible.

The huge majority of all rules in all recreational activities are completely arbitrary. And rarely logical. And even more rarely explained.

Yeah timing errors suck. 1 minute penalty for whatever vs 10 seconds penalty per minute, sucks when co-drivers get you 13 FULL MINUTES. 130 seconds sounds a lot better than 780 seconds.

Reading results some places all in seconds, some places in minutes and fucking hundredths, trying to keep track stage by stage of SS times AND the changes on RallycArmericar incredibly horrible, useless website, these things suck.

But then again, life's rough all over....

It's not like all you geniuses are trying to read shit in some gawddam foreign language----somehow tens of thousands of people do that every year...


Above all Rules should be clearly written.
SOMEWHERE there should exactly in law be a statement of INTENT of a given rule---so you can measure the words against the stated purpose of the rule.

And in participant funded organisations, participants decide the rules.


(Say youse walks into a saloon and there a buncha galoots, hard men, drinkling and over there at the table you see a buncha hombres ALREADY IN THE MIDDLE of a game of Poker..
Howdya suppose theses varmits are going to respond to you when you say
"Well, back home in Taos, when we play Poker, Deuces, Tres, One eyed Jacks are wild, and Aces high..

We REALLY need all the rules to be exactly alike because the only reason you guys are play the way you are is just because you're used to it, you guys HAVE TO THINK about whebn somebody comes in from off the trail, like me, and change things so I'm don't have to think"

Well how do you suppose the conversation with them boy's will go?


THIS above is the crux o da matter.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Rules can be uniform and flexible.

That's where the interpretation comes in. Each event would have someone different interpreting them. Although, some rules, like safety stuff, there shouldn't really be interpretation, to keep everything uniform. But the other little rules (like how the rally is run, and what you can/cannot do in certain areas) are what would vary with organizers or events, say, a National Oregon trail vs a Regional Mt. Hood.

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john vanlandingham
Above all Rules should be clearly written.

If you don't think that a RA rule is clear, let me know and I will try to change it to make it more clear. I have been saying this for years and some people have actually taken me up on it and I have changed rules to make them clearer as a result. I can be reached at alanp@snowmoose.com.

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SOMEWHERE there should exactly in law be a statement of INTENT of a given rule---so you can measure the words against the stated purpose of the rule.

Could you provide an example of where this would be useful?

As far as the rest of this discussion, I have learned my lesson and am staying out of it.

alan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2011 02:40PM by tipo158.

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And in participant funded organisations, participants decide the rules.

From what I can tell, CARS comes the closest to this... unless you include sanction exceptions granted to events so they can keep their 'local feel.'

In the end I wasn't suggesting that everyone adopt one existing set of rules but that at some point the sanctioning bodies collectively take a comprehensive look at what is being done and bring together the 'best practices.'

"Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding." - Mohandas Gandhi

The intent of the rule would just add more words for either print(cost) or misunderstanding. The intent or reason need be nothing more than the fluffing of the skirts of the writer or sanctioning body.

Some of the wording has always been a bit flowery, possibly to be more legal sounding, rather than plain english. Sometimes words just don't work well..like the infamous SCCA VRP rule. That was bad.

I'd guess Sean is correct that ego enters into it, but it's not the only thing. Personal beliefs, past experiences both play a role I'm sure.

Our local dirt track used to be 'club' run and promoted. It was always a fight. Whatever group was in power on the board ran things to their satisfaction. If it was the Modified, they benefitted the most. Street Stock guys the same when they were in charge. We always raced but the club always fought and struggled. Pathetic really. At some point a real promoter got the track and boy what a difference. He didn't race so ran it like a business. Benevolent dictatorship. Changes were made, people left but in the end the track proffited. Improvemnets were mad to the facilities. Attendance went up, prize money went up, competiton was better. Oh people still bitched but they always will.

Most people don't care for rule making or politics, they just want to race. Things aren't any worse now than the SCCA days. Both RA and NRS really look at all the changes with an eye for hoping it works as intended.

Ok, so who's gonna herd these cats?