Hello crazies,

I am participating in a Rallycross event at the end of the month, and while I probably don't have time to do any big changes before the event I figured this question will also help me decide what to do when Pikes Peak rolls around.

The RallyX event is a short track with a mix of tarmac parking lot, and dirt.
It'll be my first time here, but from video's of previous events it would seem about 50/50.

My car is currently on Hotbits gravel suspension, and I have a set of side & directional Michelin gravel tires, I also have the option of a pretty well used set of slicks.

Does anyone have any experience on mixed surfaces?
How about tire choice and any suggestions on how hard to set-up the suspension?

Thanks in advance!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2011 09:58PM by PotatoFlakeSTi.

You know Pikes Peak is no longer a mixed surface? They finished paving it a month or so ago.

I bet you'll hate the slicks on dirt more than you'll hate rhe the graveltires on tarmac.

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Jay
I bet you'll hate the slicks on dirt more than you'll hate rhe the graveltires on tarmac.

really depends on the dirt. if it's hard packed with little to no loose on top, then something slick-ish may not be bad. If it's loose, than you'll want the gravels for sure.

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modernbeat
You know Pikes Peak is no longer a mixed surface? They finished paving it a month or so ago.

They paved the whole thing?

Well damn, should probably look into full on tarmac suspension then.
Thanks for the heads up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2011 10:56PM by PotatoFlakeSTi.

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Jay
I bet you'll hate the slicks on dirt more than you'll hate rhe the graveltires on tarmac.

I will bring both sets then...

One of my sets of gravel tires is moderately cut for loose/wet gravel, but the uncut might be best regardless for more contact patch on the tarmac.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2011 10:59PM by PotatoFlakeSTi.

My recommendation based on running there years ago on dirt only is that you'll want to run gravel tires and keep the car setup the way you like it on gravel. Just try to lose as little time as possible on the pavement.

Jason's on the money that PPIHC is now fully paved so you don't need to concern youself with figuring out a compromise setup. You do probably want to not set your car entirely up for a "perfect tarmac" type road course, as PP is such a variable environment...ask me how I know. LOL

Not sure about your experience level, but one thing you might want to do is ensure you've got some other high speed experience to put on your racing resume. Track racing, CHCA hillclimbs, stage rally, etc...not that rally-x isn't valuable, but its not high speed/high consequence.

I get the feeling PPIHC is going to start being more strict about who's getting to participate...

Dave

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DaveK
My recommendation based on running there years ago on dirt only is that you'll want to run gravel tires and keep the car setup the way you like it on gravel. Just try to lose as little time as possible on the pavement.

Jason's on the money that PPIHC is now fully paved so you don't need to concern youself with figuring out a compromise setup. You do probably want to not set your car entirely up for a "perfect tarmac" type road course, as PP is such a variable environment...ask me how I know. LOL

Not sure about your experience level, but one thing you might want to do is ensure you've got some other high speed experience to put on your racing resume. Track racing, CHCA hillclimbs, stage rally, etc...not that rally-x isn't valuable, but its not high speed/high consequence.

I get the feeling PPIHC is going to start being more strict about who's getting to participate...

Dave

Thanks for the input Dave.

My experience level is low, Moto-x in my preteens, some Auto-x in my teens, and some non-competitive go-karting recently. I intend on hitting every Rally-x and CHCA event in 2012 before building or buying something on the East coast and get into Stage-rallies.

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PotatoFlakeSTi
My experience level is low, Moto-x in my preteens, some Auto-x in my teens, and some non-competitive go-karting recently. I intend on hitting every Rally-x and CHCA event in 2012 before building or buying something on the East coast and get into Stage-rallies.

Totally confused - if you're in Colorado, why would you buy a car on the East coast? There's probably 15+ stage rally cars in state that are maybe a few days of thrashing away from competing in an event.

I'm hoping to bum a ride at that rally-x event (both my cars are currently broken), so hopefully I can put a face with the name.

Also - the thing about PPIHC wasn't meant to single you (or anyone) out, but they've just announced they're only reserving 50 spots for the 2012 race, and I suspect it may get more popular over the next couple of years. There are quite a few people interested now that they don't have to get their cars dirty. :shakes head: In my opinion, the race is MORE dangerous now that its paved...and just wait till the pavement starts breaking apart or getting frost heaves all over the place.

Dave

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DaveK

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PotatoFlakeSTi
My experience level is low, Moto-x in my preteens, some Auto-x in my teens, and some non-competitive go-karting recently. I intend on hitting every Rally-x and CHCA event in 2012 before building or buying something on the East coast and get into Stage-rallies.

Totally confused - if you're in Colorado, why would you buy a car on the East coast? There's probably 15+ stage rally cars in state that are maybe a few days of thrashing away from competing in an event.

I'm hoping to bum a ride at that rally-x event (both my cars are currently broken), so hopefully I can put a face with the name.

Also - the thing about PPIHC wasn't meant to single you (or anyone) out, but they've just announced they're only reserving 50 spots for the 2012 race, and I suspect it may get more popular over the next couple of years. There are quite a few people interested now that they don't have to get their cars dirty. :shakes head: In my opinion, the race is MORE dangerous now that its paved...and just wait till the pavement starts breaking apart or getting frost heaves all over the place.

Dave

Sorry to have come off confusing. I own a house in NJ as well. Initially intended to get started out there, but figured I should start a little cheaper until I get my head on straight and get a little experience in.

If you're not looking for someone exceptional, I'd love to have you ride along and teach me how it is done... Or if they'll allow it, you can give her a spin.

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PotatoFlakeSTi
Sorry to have come off confusing. I own a house in NJ as well. Initially intended to get started out there, but figured I should start a little cheaper until I get my head on straight and get a little experience in.

Makes good sense! If you're buying a used car, you may have better luck searching/asking around out here since cars are much less prone to rust. There's also a couple of us locally who may be offering starter kits if you're the kind of "I have to build it because the car I want isn't for sale" type person. The two likely supported chassis are likely to be the GC8 Subaru and E36 BMWs.

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PotatoFlakeSTi
If you're not looking for someone exceptional, I'd love to have you ride along and teach me how it is done... Or if they'll allow it, you can give her a spin.

Pretty sure that ridealongs are allowed and encouraged. If I can make it down I'd be happy to hop in and help if I can. My other offer for a car to drive is an Evo IX, so that's going to be pretty tough to turn down.

Dave

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Jay
I bet you'll hate the slicks on dirt more than you'll hate rhe the graveltires on tarmac.

I bet just the opposite. Paul Eddleston ran a similar layout series and autocross tires felt like they gave up nothing on the dirt relative to high performance street tires. And the difference on pavement was astonishing. (I'd never rode on V710s before)

Someone showed up on gravel tires once. It was painful to watch. Gained very little, if any, on the dirt section, and on pavement, well.... painful.

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Pete

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Jay
I bet you'll hate the slicks on dirt more than you'll hate the the gravel tires on tarmac.

I bet just the opposite. Paul Eddleston ran a similar layout series and autocross tires felt like they gave up nothing on the dirt relative to high performance street tires. And the difference on pavement was astonishing. (I'd never rode on V710s before)

Someone showed up on gravel tires once. It was painful to watch. Gained very little, if any, on the dirt section, and on pavement, well.... painful.

The pavement in the parking lot at PPIR is terrible, the stuff in the infield of the oval is great. The rally-x guys get to use the parking lot and some of the dirt field (overflow parking?). The dirt is very sandy in nature, so its not likely to 'tack up' much if at all. If the dirt had significant moisture content (this area is more desert/plains) I'd bet that it would tack up nicely and road racing tires would be better (this is what people have counted on at PPIHC for years).

Because the lot sits right next to a dirt lot and the wind is usually blowing pretty good, there's lots of dust and dirt on the surface. I used the lot one day this year trying to get the tarmac suspension dialed in on my PPIHC car. Even with the complete lack of under car aero bits, you could see good dust wedges coming off the back of the car during testing.

FWIW, for those of you that saw "team subaru" testing videos from when GRC visited PPIR, this is the spot that the rally-x guys get to use.

Dave

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Pete

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Jay
I bet you'll hate the slicks on dirt more than you'll hate rhe the graveltires on tarmac.

I bet just the opposite. Paul Eddleston ran a similar layout series and autocross tires felt like they gave up nothing on the dirt relative to high performance street tires. And the difference on pavement was astonishing. (I'd never rode on V710s before)

Someone showed up on gravel tires once. It was painful to watch. Gained very little, if any, on the dirt section, and on pavement, well.... painful.

For decades they have run mixed stages in Flanders, land of my ancestors and home of the best beer in the whole galaxy.
The consensus there is cut asphalt tires. There anyway the gravel (usually dirt roads around the edges of fields, not real gravel roads) sections are short, the asphalt long, so better to have huge grip on the fast asphalt.

Monte Carlo is also famous or infamous for starting stages in a valley, climbing a ridge, running the ridge then plunging back into a valley..
Sometimes there just snow at the top, and guys will run slicks and just fake it at the top (modern slicks having some 15% slots). Decade of watching this says better to have specialised asphalt tires for asphalt....and just deal with it on the snow..

Personally I like the feel of the casings of gravel tires and have had some good fun with really worn out gravel tires. Almost no block left means no block squirm. Nice stiff sidewalls means the transition from grip to slide is nice and easy, no grip grip GRIP! then twang let go and yeehawww spin.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Last time I ran oregon trail at the PIR stages, the rcomp yokos worked fine on the paved sections and were rollerskates on gravel. But we have 'special dirt around here, maybe a clay or hard surface would get along find with those tires.