MRWmotorsports Martin Walter Super Moderator Location: North Gower, Ontario, Canada. Join Date: 03/01/2006 Age: Ancient Posts: 450 Rally Car: Nissan 240SX |
John, would this be JVL tubes, DMS inserts, bilstein pistons and rods? These new 50mm bilstein inserts would/should be direct replacements inserts if/when I bent these hybrids? Just trying to make sure I undertsand what you are offering. My next gravel rally iusn't until early May, but it sounds like Bilstein 50mm's still might not be available, or iffy at best. Let me know if I've got this right.
-Martin. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Professional Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Yeah, or precisely DMS insert TUBE... One thing I thunk of is the top pin.... But you're right, nobody know how/when the 50s will arrive, or how they'll end up in anybody's hands to be made into actual usable suspension. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
MRWmotorsports Martin Walter Super Moderator Location: North Gower, Ontario, Canada. Join Date: 03/01/2006 Age: Ancient Posts: 450 Rally Car: Nissan 240SX |
I guess for this hybrid solution we'd be stuck with the mounting pin as it is now, which is what? What top mounts does that mate to? I could work with just about any top mount as necessary. But my intention would be to use these inserts only until proper Bilstein ones are available, then keep these as spares. I'd consider using a common production style top mount for the 50mm solution anyway... I've a feeling that the small ammount of compliance that this would offer might help avoid bending in the future.
-Martin. |
Mad Matt F Matt Follett Junior Moderator Location: La Belle Province, Montreal Join Date: 03/13/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 646 Rally Car: Don't Laugh, the Justy is Fun! |
Forever, lurking and thinking...
What IS bending these things? I mean they are huge (i understand the wall thickness isn't huge, but it's not paper...) , and the lower control arms should be keeping them only going up and down correct? So what is happening to get them out of alignment and causing them to then bend? Don't the lower control arms have to be moving to cause some sort of misalignment? Oooorrrrr, are they hydro-locking on big hits causing all this energy to go "somewhere" and thus the tube gets bent? (since the chassis is all seam welded up, strong as whatever, tied the cage... yadda yadda) If that is the reason, is the larger tube just stronger, or does the large piston give more control and less potential for the system to lock up? Thanks... |
Mad Matt F Matt Follett Junior Moderator Location: La Belle Province, Montreal Join Date: 03/13/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 646 Rally Car: Don't Laugh, the Justy is Fun! |
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MRWmotorsports Martin Walter Super Moderator Location: North Gower, Ontario, Canada. Join Date: 03/01/2006 Age: Ancient Posts: 450 Rally Car: Nissan 240SX |
Hi Matt, that's the $64,000 question...
I've been thinking about it for 6 years. I've come up with theories, but no proof.. how do you prove why they are bending? Unless you fix somethimng and the stop bending.. how long, mabe a full season with no bent inserts would be proof. Theory is: heavy car, excessive side loads, small diamater tube = bend. I can run the things through full travel with no spring on, and turn lock to lock, so theortically there is no binding. I do have rubber bushings on teh inner of control arm,a nd teh TC rod that goes forn LCA to the rad cradle... maybe these are moving enough under load that something is binding? My top mount uses a spherical bearing now, my theory is if this were a stock style rubber top mount that maybe it woudl have some give and reduce any possible binding... I dunno... -Martin. |
A1337STI Alex Rademacher Mod Moderator Location: Reno,nv Join Date: 09/10/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 686 Rally Car: 93 GC with an 01 RS swap! |
A friend of mine stopped by my house to pick up some tires i was giving him.
I showed him my Bent eared rear, and marks 2 bent ones. (he has an engineering or is it an Engine ear ring ? degree) He was thinking the bending of the ears is hitting something hard with your rear tires at speed and possible under some compression. you're hitting a big force that wants to yank that wheel directly backwards.. energy has to go somewhere, and it goes into the ears first (which bend if not gusseted) On the actual inserts bending. he's thinking we just have to be hitting stuff while in a drift. Tap a berm at 65 .. might not feel like much of a push to you, but it might have been a good lateral push onto the Insert. i was showing him the Ksports which have yet to bend on me.. and he noticed the Ksports are bigger. 40mm vs 36mm (i believe) Also the Ksport has a lot more overlap so the leverage point to Bend the Insert (inner tube) is shorter, so whacking a berm provides less leverage to bend the insert , and the bigger diameter tube resists bending more. I Honestly think if John can make a rear tube with the max overlap that still allows for full travel, the Bending of the 36's (40s) will be in the past. (except for stupid big crashes) the ear bending thing sorta makes sense. if you hit a large rock on a front tire and the wheel needs to "move backwards" it can to some degree via your steering. all the steering bushings and joints will allow for Some movement . Plus i think drivers are a lot better at dodging rocks with their fronts wheels, but sometimes tag one with a back wheel (mid drift) that's my thinkings.. So i'll have to bug john and see if we can make make an " experimental" setup on one of mine. ![]() |
Do It Sidewayz Chris Martin Infallible Moderator Location: Toronto, Ontario Join Date: 01/15/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 567 Rally Car: E-85 powered Impreza |
Side Loads... In a mcpherson strut car, the strut is keeping the wheel/hub from flapping about. The control arm locates the bottom of the hub with the balljoint, but the strut is what's locating the top of the hub. I mean, jack the car up, and with the wheel/tire still installed, give the bottom of the tire a whack, and think about the forces. Then whack the top of the tire and think about the forces....they get transmitted into the strut. The insert is weaker than the strut tube that locates it, so it bends. "heavy cars", driving faster, rougher roads, etc are all going to put more stress on the 40mm or 50mm shaft. Chris |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Professional Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Elsewhere today to the young guy going to college who has this insane signature quote from a friend about "Injur-nears" "We make assumptions..." Re: the ears I was told by a good Engineer that vectors is like Engineering 101 first week. Draw a rectangle the draw an arrow going ---------> that away. Thats your car going forward. You hit a nasty ass ledge....the force goes<--------thataways. It wants to bend things BACK. The suspension links "resolve' the load and so there is a rearwards and upwards force---and the suspesnion moves UPWARDS... Too bad the ears are bending FORWARD... Of course the forces are multidirectional. Draw another box and put some wheels on it viewed from above. Draw your arrow ^ for forwards thrust--which generates a rearward push V thataway then imagine cornering, braking, braking and cornering and imagine the resultant direction the force is going.... Clearly overlap is the key to making the stuffs go up and down and not fold rearward... But said you have not disassembled the K-sprouts like you said ya haddnt---(and gawddamit have you sent your other rear up yet???) unless your injur-near friend is like this guy ![]() then I don't know how he'd be able to say what the overlap is.. Send those damn things up and we can whip 'em apart and see similarities and differences----which is the first step in "Engineering", and most analysis : compare and contrast. The "good" Engineer I spoke with back in December, was in agreement when I wondered aloud about 2 things; the gooseneck being describing a tighter arc than the spindle and being to go across the top of the arc, and "the sheer amount of rubber potentially causing weird ass shit"...potentially is a big engineering word.....Engineers learn to use that a lot when they're guessing. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Mad Matt F Matt Follett Junior Moderator Location: La Belle Province, Montreal Join Date: 03/13/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 646 Rally Car: Don't Laugh, the Justy is Fun! |
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phlat65 Sean Medcroft Senior Moderator Location: Edmonds, Washington Join Date: 02/12/2009 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,802 Rally Car: Building a Merkur |
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eage8 Mike Golden Professional Moderator Location: MD Join Date: 02/24/2012 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 1 |
I emailed bret a while ago and he said "We are pushing hard to have kits on the shelf with in two months." and that was on Feburary 1st. Hopefully they get them out close to then. |
MRWmotorsports Martin Walter Super Moderator Location: North Gower, Ontario, Canada. Join Date: 03/01/2006 Age: Ancient Posts: 450 Rally Car: Nissan 240SX |
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MRWmotorsports Martin Walter Super Moderator Location: North Gower, Ontario, Canada. Join Date: 03/01/2006 Age: Ancient Posts: 450 Rally Car: Nissan 240SX |
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