Just read up on the demise of Group B back in the 80s...

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240tshead
Oh okay yeah I see. Heck, my favorite GrB car doesn't even have 300hp...I believe the FJ24 put out 277hp...but it was also rwd....hmmm. I guess the 240rs wasn't one of the "cool" ones. lol

Was the 240RS ever homologated as Group B? I know it was a Group 4 car, but I can't remember if they ever bothered with Group B.

Still a cool car, Ken Burt has one here in CT, and enough spares to build about 6 or 7 FJ's.

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Opel is a 4-letter word...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10498579@N07/sets/

I'm getting from all sorts of sources that it is...but you know how it is on the internet. I would die for one of those cars. (cause dying is better than killing. lol) As long as they brought me back to life.

Well it's buried in his basement so I never got a good photo, but just the same...

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Opel is a 4-letter word...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10498579@N07/sets/

Ahh, that's amazing. I've seen them for sell...but in NZ and Bulgaria and places and for a minimum of 50000 EUR....

Looks like the car featured in "Rallymaster"

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Doivi Clarkinen

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240tshead

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john vanlandingham
Just like HP figures in Formula One GpB bhp figures have gone up a couple of hundred since the figures in respected press overseas at the time.
So with the passage of time and generations of people who have never seen them or look at at SS times, they hypped up and speed of what came before is not known or appreciated.

Not sure what you mean in bold....maybe I am just a bad reader...lol Are you saying how 1 1980 hp does not = 1 2010 hp?

Confused....

No, what he's saying is people sometimes say things now like, "Oh yeah, the Group B cars were badass, they had like 800 hp!"

Actually, they typically had 350-550hp, tops.

Right. See Dave, as young as he is, was just into the sport when those things were at their peak.. And in those pre-inter-nety days we'd read European newspapers and magazines, admittedly most English, Swedish, French (the best!) and German. I subscribed to a couple, and we'd go to Bulldog news on University Ave in the "U-destruct".....
World of difference between the Eurp reports on everything and the little scraps in 'merikuhn mags.
The Gp B cars in rally trim typically had mid-high 300s.
I love to quote the figures for the first Quattros which were Gp4 cars: 265 bhp---while there were PILES AND PILES of 262 (@10,000 rpm) Cosworth BDGs in Escorts.
Quattro weighed gawd knows what but a hell of a lot more than the 2000 lb Escorts.
But it had about 3 times the torque from the turbo.

The goal is always to make torque.

In Pikes Peak trim, which is really just a single easy stage, the cars were full of all sorts of non-homologated parts and there they went for over 500-550.

But now every pimple-squeezing kid if they know one thing about GpB, it ain't engine size, wheelbase, weight, disc and caliper size, etc, they "know" Oh yeah, they were badd ass, they had like 600 or 800 bhp. They were TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fast!!!!!"

Too bad by 88 the early GpA cars were matching stage times, and by 89, beating GpB stage times.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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Ascona73

Was the 240RS ever homologated as Group B? I know it was a Group 4 car, but I can't remember if they ever bothered with Group B.

Still a cool car, Ken Burt has one here in CT, and enough spares to build about 6 or 7 FJ's.

I believe it was. I read something once "the only GpB car ever with a #@!!&**! steering box."

You 'spose Ken would ever let anything sitting rotting, lonesome and dejected for those FJs go?

Been looking for good cams of some sort for the one I built for a friend.
And i know crap is just gathering dust.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Nice. I wonder if he wants me to drive it for him :-)

-Martin

You making fun, JVL? lol I wish there was more available info to take in. I eat what I'm fed unless I know that its BS. BS tastes bad.


I also may or may not have thought about, in the very far back of my head, putting an FJ24 in the s14.... lots of work though and outside of my knowledge base atm. Plus idk how to do anything carbureted...

love the quote from the rallymaster "it is the last chance to do something foolish that would otherwise be illegal.."

pretty much sums it up

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what could go wrong?

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john vanlandingham
You 'spose Ken would ever let anything sitting rotting, lonesome and dejected for those FJs go?

Been looking for good cams of some sort for the one I built for a friend.
And i know crap is just gathering dust.

I can ask him. He is always doing something with those engines. I know he was looking into getting cam bearings reproduced...he has a lot of overseas 'customers'. Has a nice 260 HP dry sumped FJ24 just sitting there waiting for a home. Has a ton more FJ20 stuff too.

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Opel is a 4-letter word...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10498579@N07/sets/

Seeing the last of the GpB cars in action warped my mind.

We all know the numbers say they were not all that fast but the numbers do not say anything about how they made their speed. Watching Jura in the 20tT16 tackel a haripin turn is forever engreved in my mind's eye along with the sound of the Delta S4.

Once sitting in a hotel room in Irerland I saw a rally video where they showed the same turn with many of the same drivers from about 1980 to 2007, the last of the WRC cars are ubelivelbly quicker the the Gp4, GpB, GbA and early WRC cars... This was before the S1600 WRC cars we now have.

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In the long run reality always wins.

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derek
Seeing the last of the GpB cars in action warped my mind.

We all know the numbers say they were not all that fast but the numbers do not say anything about how they made their speed. Watching Jura in the 20tT16 tackel a haripin turn is forever engreved in my mind's eye along with the sound of the Delta S4.

Once sitting in a hotel room in Irerland I saw a rally video where they showed the same turn with many of the same drivers from about 1980 to 2007, the last of the WRC cars are ubelivelbly quicker the the Gp4, GpB, GbA and early WRC cars... This was before the S1600 WRC cars we now have.

Which are again, slightly quicker.

Ya know the difference between the GpB and the later 2,0 World Rally Cars: about 3 mph average overall.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Part of it, also was back then compared to the other cars of the time the Group B cars were so much crazier and faster. Well, at least quicker accelerating. Group A cars back then were very mild, much closer to stock than what they were by the end of the Group A era. Group N cars were utterly showroom stock. The Group B cars were point and shoot, drag race from corner to corner, hang on for dear life. That's what made them exciting to watch (in a good way) and exciting to drive (in maybe not such a good way.)

Comparing the speeds is a bit of a trick with todays cars. I watched a stock EVO absolutely smoke a real WRC Escort on Top Gear the other day. Those early cars were running on pretty crappy tires and suspensions back then. They made good power, were very sketchy in construction though. The Audis were pigs but the Citroen and Pugeot were improvements. The RS2000 likely would have been the hot shit with a shade more developement. Considering the slaughter that ensued FIA had no choice but to pull the plug. I'd guess any of those early, very talented drivers would be amazed with the offerings of today. We see this in all of the automotive world. NASCAR makes more power with teeny restrictors than they did in the 70's, turn more arrrs, live much longer. The modern Hyundai makes massive power compared to the Japenese offering of the 60s and 70s..even the 80s for that matter. You need to wonder what would have been in a couple years if the developement of the GpB had been allowed to escalate. Pretty amazing time in our sport tho, glad I got to see some of it.