Whoes following Sno Drift?

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MConte05
Gotta build up that rally karma!

Not to put a damper on your good deeds, but that isn't how it works (especially once you get faster). Sad but true, it's the nature of competition.

We used to pull people out all of the time, but after it was pointed out that:

1) It is dangerous
2) Sweep typically comes before someone will max late
3) Sweep will have the proper tools and are in a position to do the recovery without it being dangerous
4) 2wd guys will almost never be able to pull you out, so the karma is moot even if they try (on top of the 1st 3 things)

So I don't pull people out anymore unless, like you were, I am way down the order.

Edit-
And most everyone else runs on this premise I've found. Of course, I'm used to being closer to the pointy end, it's been quite a few years since I started outside the top 10 regionally or nationally, so things may change further down the field.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2012 01:31PM by HiTempguy.

All of the guys I yanked out where 2WD who were nose first in a ditch with a tow strap and triangles already out. Stopped, motioned for them to hook up, and within 20 seconds had them out of the ditch. They unhooked and I took off.

Though I understand what you are saying, I stopped to help when it seemed that all they needed was a quick yank. Some other cars I passed were wedged in wayyyy deeper than possible, so sweep would have to take care of that. I think Sno*Drift is a little more unique in the fact that when some people get stuck, all it takes is a little tug to get them going again, rather than at other rallies when they might be deep in a ditch and actually need sweep equipment to safely get them out.

Adam,
The danger angle is arguable, I understand what you are saying but having a car stuck nose off in the snow has a certain danger anyway. I pulled out a few cars back in the day also, and it was when i was down in the order. Seems like that is part of the dues paying in rally, even some of the fast guys still do it once in a while.

No one should ever count on sweep being responsible to get people pulled out in time to continue.

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MConte05
I stopped to pull out someone if I recall correctly. Never had any major problems once I was on stage except for when my tranny plug dropped out and all my gearoil said bye-bye, but that was later in the day. Since I wasn't going for a class win or anything, I stopped to help anyone that I could. Figured being that far back in the pack, a heavy AWD car with decent snow/ice tires will help out the G2 and G5 guys. I think I pulled out 3 cars while on stage, and one more attempt when I tried to pull you out on the transit.

Gotta build up that rally karma!

Indeed. We made a few attempts on Friday, and were able to tug Billy, but after we made the jump to ice tires we we made some passes. It got even better on Saturday. We only saw one car in the ditch, and it was Witte and Lohr. We tugged them and were on our way.

People at the top just dont see people ditched. Its those at the very bottom who see all the carnage, so they end up doing the tugging. I see it as paying dues.

I am excited to finally have a speed factor. Having better road position at my next event will let me stretch the legs of the new motor.

---

I Seppanen, Car #240

Couple of thoughts.
The guys at the front typically get further off the road when they do go off, making it tougher to recover them.
SOMETIMES they get help from telephone poles to get back on the road
(



The other thing is that rally karma doesn't always pay back in the same form it is given in.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

I've pulled a few people out. I had my navigator once tell me not to (gorman sort of a sketch section of the road) he had a lot more experience than i did so i deffered to his judgment.

Lately I haven't seen any cars off, ready to get tugged out. If I'm in a battle for position I'm going to slow down (or stop) to make sure the team that's off is Okay, then i'm going back to racing speed.

If something happens so that I've lost my reasonable chance to go after what ever i was chasing (class win, a certain OA position, etc) I'll definitely tug people out. Or even if i just end up with a good time buffer (behind the next by over a minute, but leading the guy behind me by over a minute) why not pull someone out, loose some of your lead and make it a tougher fight to hold onto that 5th or what ever spot.


It usually it seems to take about 15-45 seconds depending on how ready the stuck team is, and how stuck they are. Its fun, and adds to the experience/ adventure of it all. even as a 2WD Open diff car I managed to pull some cars nosed off on gravel events.

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A1337STI
It usually it seems to take about 15-45 seconds

Aww, how cute, the driver trying to estimate the time something takes

Not that you are pumped on adrenaline with the red mist and tunnel vision going on or anything. That TOTALLY wouldn't skew your judgement of time in a racing situation...

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HiTempguy

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A1337STI
It usually it seems to take about 15-45 seconds

Aww, how cute, the driver trying to estimate the time something takes

Not that you are pumped on adrenaline with the red mist and tunnel vision going on or anything. That TOTALLY wouldn't skew your judgement of time in a racing situation...

Love it.
Especially hilarious how drivers state with perfect precision "We lost 42 seconds on a .........." and then we see video with a clock running and they stuffed, backed up and were on the gas again in 6 seconds.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
HiTempguy

Quote
A1337STI
It usually it seems to take about 15-45 seconds

Aww, how cute, the driver trying to estimate the time something takes

Not that you are pumped on adrenaline with the red mist and tunnel vision going on or anything. That TOTALLY wouldn't skew your judgement of time in a racing situation...

fast forward to 8:45 and check the time from where i stop to tow him out, and then look at the time when he slaps my trunk to let me know i'm ready to leave..

its about 45 seconds. but the driver was swinging the tow strap and had to hook it up and jump back in. had their navigator been holding the tow strap (and okay) and the driver was ready to drive it would have cut a little time down...

I think its more cute that i can back up what i'm saying..

know what i'm say'n ? :p

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A1337STI
I think its more cute that i can back up what i'm saying..

know what i'm say'n ? :p

I never said it DIDN'T happen. Like everything, you can cherry pick data. All I'm saying, I think it's a bit of an understatement to say every single tow out is under 1 minute. I've saw co-drivers have to fiddle for 15+ seconds alone trying to latch the tow strap onto the "towers" car. If you've committed to giving the person a tug, what are you going to do, run over the co-driver whose kneeling in front of the car? Add a couple of tugs (not unreasonable) and the co-driver having to unlatch the cars easily gets you to a minute.

Or, if everything goes absolutely perfectly, you could do it in under 20 seconds.

you didn't say "it didn't happen" you just pointed out we (drivers) tend to be bad at estimating time. (we are) i think my first estimation for this tug out was 20 seconds, but it was indeed longer.

But very good point that some tugs will take longer than a minute... so before i offer a tug i should be willing to have 1-2 minutes added to my time. hmmm actually that's really good to be reminded of before I got "tug crazy" at some event and drop a place in class ... hahaha

If it is going to take longer than a minute to tug a car then it becomes FAR more dangerous than a 'quick' tug where everyone is ready. From my own in-car I can tell you that from stopped to un-hooked CAN be as low as 15 seconds pretty easily. (co-driver ready, one yank, unhooked immediately) Of course you also loose the time it takes to stop and get back to speed, but that is so variable depending on where you are stopping it is hard to quantify.

If you are waiting for, and expecting, a tug do what you can to make it happen. have the tow rope ready, have someone in the car, and be ready to unhook the minute you are either out or it becomes clear you aren't getting out.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

I've heard of co-ds standing with a tow hook in one hand and a 20 in the other.

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heymagic
I've heard of co-ds standing with a tow hook in one hand and a 20 in the other.

There's some real incentive!



I tried twice to pull people out at sno*drift. First time was a friend, we were able to move them, but couldnt dislodge them. After 2 quick tugs we unhooked and left because it was in a slick downhill, and didnt want to be caught from behind and create a mess.

The 2nd, was kinda accidental, crest, downhill, R3+ or something, saw the triangles and literally just slid down the hill next right in behind them and they hooked up to us. I was really just trying not to slide into them, but I was like well I guess we're here. Gave a quick two tugs, and didnt get them out, but no one was in the car giving it gas at the time, end up getting pulled out by the car behind us. They told us later they werent trying to stop either, just avoiding a wreck.