Whoes following Sno Drift?

i say let the 2wd guys run studs, maybe even some agressive ones, but only street car amounts. That might be interesting....

Just back from Sno*Drift.

I think the increase in media attention was awesome. I saw way more press people, and I was even interview twice. Once at registration, once while waiting to start a stage. I think in time we will all get to see how much media attention there was. I for one have never seen so many media people running around.

It was a circus out there, the slipperiest ice I have ever encountered. Not to mention driving not only a car, but a drivetrail layout that I had absolutely no experience in.

I for one had an absolute blast. The Subaroots Crew came together and got the car sorted and ready for me. I think I had the true Sno*Drift experience, I pulled some people out, I did some 360s, I clobbered some snowbanks, and I botched some corners. Despite all that we pulled off a decent finish, 4th in class on Friday, and 2nd in class on Saturday.

The Skelly's had a few trials and tribulations on Friday, but hopefully they come as a lesson for future events (a working odometer is more important than matching team clothing). I think the true shining light for the group was RTK, the Kaltak's were just as new as the girls, and they finished both days without issue, and they set much better times over all. Great things for new driver/co-driver/car/team.

Maybe next year I will give it a shot with my own car.

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I Seppanen, Car #240



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2012 09:41AM by Ian S.

Im still struck by the number of entries! hopefully its not a fluke!

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

Quote
Gravity Fed
Im still struck by the number of entries! hopefully its not a fluke!

At the drivers meeting they said there were something like 28 people in the Novice class, and they all showed up.

That many new people has to say something.

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I Seppanen, Car #240

rally cars as economic indicators?

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

Actually I'm not defending RAs position just because...we're really talking about degress of slipperyness at this point. The people who didn't run the event are fussing about having but only with studs.

If everyone made it and they did (normal percentage anyway) and they were all laughing, giggling at the end (they were) then the event was a grand success.

I just don't see how an event can be fun or not over a small enhancement like studs in this case.

wait... I was talking about buff guys.

---

First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

Quote
heymagic
Actually I'm not defending RAs position just because...we're really talking about degress of slipperyness at this point. The people who didn't run the event are fussing about having but only with studs.

If everyone made it and they did (normal percentage anyway) and they were all laughing, giggling at the end (they were) then the event was a grand success.

I just don't see how an event can be fun or not over a small enhancement like studs in this case.

Ever driven an all ice, like shiney hard transparent ice rally?

Are you suggesting that it wouldn't be more fun?

I just can see sending all the money for cage and HANS and entry to drive 35mph---How DO they survive at T-bird averaging the same speed in STREET CARS?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Personally I think the crowd that was there enjoyed it. They want to see cars slide off the road and they certainly saw that this weekend.


It was my first snow rally, I have to say it was insanely slippery. 45 mph in 3rd gear, on a straight if i mashed the gas i would spin the tires. (AWD, hakka r's, probably 115 whp).

The 2nd day was a lot better and much more fun, better roads, better conditions. Did have an off in which i cut a tire, got towed out, finished the stage on the rim before we changed it out. Broke my lights though so the night was rough running on one high beam and one headlight.



Came into a right 3, sliding sideways on the ice, no traction until I kinda hit the snow bank, it shot me back across the road and couldnt correct it cause I had no traction once i got back on the road. Went off about 50 yards after the turn.

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john vanlandingham

Quote
heymagic
Actually I'm not defending RAs position just because...we're really talking about degress of slipperyness at this point. The people who didn't run the event are fussing about having but only with studs.

If everyone made it and they did (normal percentage anyway) and they were all laughing, giggling at the end (they were) then the event was a grand success.

I just don't see how an event can be fun or not over a small enhancement like studs in this case.

Ever driven an all ice, like shiney hard transparent ice rally?

Are you suggesting that it wouldn't be more fun?

I just can see sending all the money for cage and HANS and entry to drive 35mph---How DO they survive at T-bird averaging the same speed in STREET CARS?

I'm not suggesting it would be more fun or less fun. I'm saying it is a degree of fun. Many people fuss about speeds too high and the top cars having too much power. Even you fuss about making events tougher like in the old days. Well this one certainly had the ability to equalize the cars, showcase talent and present a real challenge to competitors.

If you allow street studs people will bitch about needing WRC studs. WRC studs and they'd want to use the ice racer bolt thru the tire carcass trick. It never stops really.

God forbid the keyboard competitors just set back and say good job, amazing entry field and can't wait for the next event.

I'm all for studs...

but have you guys actually ever driven on a good set of studded tires? i think it will open the door to a PILE of new problems.

Speeds will go WAY up.... Good studs on good ice have probably more grip than a gravel tire on gravel!

In a year like this, where youve got non existant snow banks, when people f-up, people will be inserting themselves into trees.


I've run alot of studs at ice races...and i can tell you, We will not run studs unless we have sufficient snow banks. I have seen cars on studs drive themselves over 3 foot high snow banks no problem, and end up in the infield.


A variant of a "street studded" tire would be pretty good, the problem is however keeping the studs in the tire. 2wd guys won't have much problem, but heavier 4wd cars will spit studs like anyones business. That is unless you spend the time and $$$ to glue the studs in place (how the WRC tires are done).

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Chris

Quote
heymagic
If everyone is on snows then there is no benefit to changing to studs. As pointed out the field still finsihed in the normal order. It all washes out. Who cares if the field averaged 35mph or 45 mph? Its all relative.

I enjoyed the bits we watched. Matt was great and having a knowledgable commentator was awesome even with the goofs, changing order and lost start order. Could be the start of a great year.

Agreed. If anything, no studs helps to level the playing field by limiting the mu It also emphasizes driver skill.

Depending on the types of studs and studding allowed, the cost of running an event with a competitive stud-tire package probably ranges from being about the same as running bare rubber to somewhere north of twice the cost but almost certainly not cheaper....

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____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

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Quote
Do It Sidewayz
I'm all for studs...

but have you guys actually ever driven on a good set of studded tires? i think it will open the door to a PILE of new problems.

Speeds will go WAY up.... Good studs on good ice have probably more grip than a gravel tire on gravel!

In a year like this, where youve got non existant snow banks, when people f-up, people will be inserting themselves into trees.


I've run alot of studs at ice races...and i can tell you, We will not run studs unless we have sufficient snow banks. I have seen cars on studs drive themselves over 3 foot high snow banks no problem, and end up in the infield.


A variant of a "street studded" tire would be pretty good, the problem is however keeping the studs in the tire. 2wd guys won't have much problem, but heavier 4wd cars will spit studs like anyones business. That is unless you spend the time and $$$ to glue the studs in place (how the WRC tires are done).

My thoughts exactly. Upping the speed at this event may very well have been disastorous. The banks were soft and very low. They melted away even when bouncing off them at 20 mph, any sort of speed and there likely would have been a great deal of carnage. Watching the videos of the spectator corners doesn't tell the whole story. Everyone was trying to show off, and those corners were by far the slippiest of the weekend from all the spinning tires polishing the ice.

This weekend was as much fun as any gravel rally I have ever been to. Adverse condtions seperate the men from the boys. I had an absolute blast on The Ranch, as well as Uncle Joe's Revenge Friday Night. Every stage on Saturday made me giggle, especially the 14 Miler. I wish I hadn't set the car up with snow tires on Friday thinking the warm weather would have made for lots of slush. Had I had the ice tires on those first 5 stages, I am convinced I could have matched my performance on Saturday. Live and learn. I can't wait to get my car back together. I didnt quite feel right piloting someone else's baby.

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I Seppanen, Car #240

Well if its such a brilliant idea not to use studs, I wonder why clubbies in the Nordic countries bother...
Just watch there is a huge contrast to me, THOSE guys are eye poppingly fast and exciting way down the field, here, sorry but its a yawn.

And as for separates the men from the boys, I ain't complaining because I can't drive in challenging conditions, I've done top 5 national SS times in my worn ancient car in heavy snow, top 10 times in torrential rain....
that shit doesn't bother me cause I'm all cosy inside a car---cause i did years of shit like that OUTSIDE IN the weather..

It just flat ain't fun..and doesn't look it compared to...always the compared to...

All the points about "If the speeds were faster.....we'd all DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" why isn't that a problem when its gravel?
Decent real rally studded tires give grip like gravel...
Do we all die on gravel.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Well if its such a brilliant idea not to use studs, I wonder why clubbies in the Nordic countries bother...
Just watch there is a huge contrast to me, THOSE guys are eye poppingly fast and exciting way down the field, here, sorry but its a yawn.

And as for separates the men from the boys, I ain't complaining because I can't drive in challenging conditions, I've done top 5 national SS times in my worn ancient car in heavy snow, top 10 times in torrential rain....
that shit doesn't bother me cause I'm all cosy inside a car---cause i did years of shit like that OUTSIDE IN the weather..

It just flat ain't fun..and doesn't look it compared to...always the compared to...

All the points about "If the speeds were faster.....we'd all DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" why isn't that a problem when its gravel?
Decent real rally studded tires give grip like gravel...
Do we all die on gravel.

Ok.

You've got me there.

Studs would change a lot of things, but personally, Im not sure the fun factor would improve all that much.

Car control was increadibly difficult on Friday, and it tested my skills in ways I had not expected. If studs made it a lot like gravel, then what might I have learned? For me, fun is not directly related to speed. The actual speed of the car is only part of the picture, Im out here for the competition. If its a level playing field, then I guess I am just not one to complain. If speed were so important, then we would all be driving Open, or Group 5 cars.

Ice, snow, studs, no studs, Press On Regardless.

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I Seppanen, Car #240