'02 update & exciting stuff at wrc

back form rally sweden (yep I got to go as guest team member from usa - was anyone else out there?) and I learned a lot of stuff and things!!
anyway, soon will be back in the car getting it ready for cage installation - found a master builder (actually he found me when I was purchasing my materials at the mill) and offered me a PT apprenticeship where I can notch & TIG the cage into the old bmw I chose as my race car -

so does everyone drop the co-drivers seat ~2.5" below the level of the drivers seat here as well?

and how did that rallysolo thing go so far? sounds like a fine idea to me, anything to allow more access and other options to the sport
- my least favorite thing is that some people (usa) think I went to a protest in sweden ;p
-most favorite is knowing that I have educated pretty much everyone at work about rally

In a 2002 you will need to do what ever you can just to get the seats to fit. I am currently trying to get two wide Sparco seats stuffed into a 1602.

In my opinion TIG welding a cage in a club level car is a huge waste of time.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

yea but it will be pretty (TIG that is) it will be a learning experience and club car nothing, I want full racing FIA priveleges (its superior form of welding 0 the metal starts out being nearly gapless at the joints


...and Im going with sparco corsa (arent those the narrower variety?)

sounds like a fun trip. now where did I put that "this thread is worthless without pics" icon?

I can run a mig gun pretty well, but I wouldn't want my first TIG experience welding joints on a race car. YMMV

Quote
Littlelina
yea but it will be pretty (TIG that is) it will be a learning experience and club car nothing, I want full racing FIA priveleges (its superior form of welding 0 the metal starts out being nearly gapless at the joints


...and Im going with sparco corsa (arent those the narrower variety?)

Lina, listen to Robert. Do things for real advantages. WRC level cages were welded using MiG. There is no advantage to TiG.
A smart person would learn on less critical things than their first cage.. Horses for courses. Learn of brackets and junk like that---where a possible failure is not so potentially catastrophic.

You want to learn? The first step is listen to those with decades of experience.


And whatever you mean by "full racing FIA privileges" TiGing a cage has nothing to do with that. Just find the FIA affiliated body in USA and buy a license.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

thanks for the weigh ins - cant ever post pics from my camera because they are too large.
I may decide on MIG - both options are available (my original first choice) but why does everyone seem so 'afraid' of TIG - its allowed in all the rule books

Quote
Littlelina
thanks for the weigh ins - cant ever post pics from my camera because they are too large.
I may decide on MIG - both options are available (my original first choice) but why does everyone seem so 'afraid' of TIG - its allowed in all the rule books

Nobody here is "afraid" of TiG. I was trained to weld in a 2 year course (which I crammed in in less than a year) in Sweden and one of the things they hammered into our thick heads was "use what's appropriate".
Would you use a 3/16" stick weld for body sheetmetal 9that is .040 thick)?

There is no advantage to welding the cage with TiG.
There are disadvantages of welding the cage with TiG.
Time---and very commonly, undercutting. But mostly it is a huge waste of time for no advantage.

You want to actually rally the car some day?

There is LOTS!!!!!!!!! to do without deciding on a pure whim, backed with obstinance, to waste time.

Do things on the car for real advantages, not whims.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

if you end up Tigging instead of Migging. You'll still be welding your cage, when you could be out driving. driving your car in between events is important. I don't mean fast practice driving on dirt roads (though that is good) i mean just going to the store, or work, or the mall. get very familiar with getting in and out of your cage, and all the noises your car makes with no sound deadening.

what's that weird noise? coming from the back left... Its much nicer if on your first transit ever, you know what sounds, smells, vibrations your car should be making .


Also I don't like putting the navigator lower or further back then i sit.. there's a little something called "corner balancing" so your car turns left just as well as turns right. I haven't done that yet, but moving one person way further back then the other is gonna mess with your corner weights really bad... or it may help .. you need to know your corner weights first, (with and with out crew) if you don't have that as a start, then I wouldn't dare move one seat back or down for "weight distribution purposes" .

I moved the co-driver seat back and in for Safety Alex, the cars performance is secondary, and allready more than can handle.

Quote
Littlelina

and how did that rallysolo thing go so far? sounds like a fine idea to me, anything to allow more access and other options to the sport

MIG welding will alllow you much more access to rally since your car will be done decidedly faster.

No reason your MIG welds can't be pretty as well.

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Quote
A1337STI

Also I don't like putting the navigator lower or further back then i sit.. there's a little something called "corner balancing" so your car turns left just as well as turns right. I haven't done that yet, but moving one person way further back then the other is gonna mess with your corner weights really bad... or it may help .. you need to know your corner weights first, (with and with out crew) if you don't have that as a start, then I wouldn't dare move one seat back or down for "weight distribution purposes" .

you've got an entire engine sitting over your front axle, your co-driver's position is irrelevant to corner balancing. low as possible for lowest CoG, and back as possible to put as much weight in the rear.


fine tune with your cool adjustable coilovers when you've got the car on scales. 1-2 mm of perch travel will add or subtract 2x Jeanna's weight.


hell, going from 25 to 30 psi in one tire, I watched that particular corner scale change by more than my own weight.

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

It doesnt take THAT long to tig a cage... I've done it.


The REST of the car is the long part...

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2012 03:32PM by Dazed_Driver.

Quote
Littlelina
anyway, soon will be back in the car getting it ready for cage installation - found a master builder (actually he found me when I was purchasing my materials at the mill) and offered me a PT apprenticeship where I can notch & TIG the cage into the old bmw I chose as my race car.

A Master Builder? A PT apprenticeship huh. Sure he's not a perve? What's he a master builder of? Ships?
The welding of a cage is so secondary to the build and design. Important, but I just saw the third or fourth car THIS YEAR that I would not even consider rallying in due to a shitty cage design. Welds may have been fine, but the cage was shit. Legal, but I wouldn't pay for them.

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Grant Hughes

Quote
Dazed_Driver
The REST of the car is the long part...

Especially when you are running four businesses, going to school full time, and feeding a family of Puffins you saved during a mountain bike ride around the Arctic circle.

---

Grant Hughes

I still have yet to corner balance. its on my "would be nice list" hell sometimes i don't even do an alignment before a rally (Never my best results) that reminds me... my car needs an alignment