Snow + Studs =

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Morison

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Logic
snow plus studs means more grip , which means higher speeds.

a) Studs don't grip snow, they need a hard surface to work.
b) Define what you mean by 'studs'... as if that hasn't been beaten to death in this thread already.

The studs we use over here are 5-7 mm long and made of tungsten and will get to the ice beneath the snow , yes you will not get much grip if you are first on the road but they are better than the tractionized tires i see used in canada .

We have done testing on roads covered in at least 4 inches of snow packed and the studded tires offered better feel and a safer feel to the drivers , when it got down to the ice then is when it got quicker.

You can also use a snow tire with shorter studs or snow tire with the longer studs , it is all down to driver preference and conditions.

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Logic

The studs we use over here are 5-7 mm long and made of tungsten and will get to the ice beneath the snow , yes you will not get much grip if you are first on the road but they are better than the tractionized tires i see used in canada .

We have done testing on roads covered in at least 4 inches of snow packed and the studded tires offered better feel and a safer feel to the drivers , when it got down to the ice then is when it got quicker.

You can also use a snow tire with shorter studs or snow tire with the longer studs , it is all down to driver preference and conditions.

Where is "over here"? See one of the reasons we have basically one rule "Real name and Real location" is so we know who we're talking to.
If you would do your priofile right, then we coul;d say OH OK, you know what you're talking about" and the opinion---which OK is based on experience, MIGHT THEN help to get these guys to understand..

OK?
Tack! eller kiitos!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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john vanlandingham

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Logic

The studs we use over here are 5-7 mm long and made of tungsten and will get to the ice beneath the snow , yes you will not get much grip if you are first on the road but they are better than the tractionized tires i see used in canada .

We have done testing on roads covered in at least 4 inches of snow packed and the studded tires offered better feel and a safer feel to the drivers , when it got down to the ice then is when it got quicker.

You can also use a snow tire with shorter studs or snow tire with the longer studs , it is all down to driver preference and conditions.

Where is "over here"? See one of the reasons we have basically one rule "Real name and Real location" is so we know who we're talking to.
If you would do your priofile right, then we coul;d say OH OK, you know what you're talking about" and the opinion---which OK is based on experience, MIGHT THEN help to get these guys to understand..

OK?
Tack! eller kiitos!

Sorry about that , over here is in Norway where i am working and living at the moment .
I am an engineer for couple teams and do sub contract engineering work for some WRC teams , currently dealing with the R2 Fiestas here in Norway but my back ground is more WRC cars .

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john vanlandingham
As a TSD.

Just like the rest of the rallies back then and, like the rest, it grew into what we know as stage rally.

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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john vanlandingham
Don't you think it sorta sucks that Skye and I , particularly ME spends the time to contact them, negotiate the fact to even sell to USA, bring in several hundred tires (in conjunction with friends in Maine for ice racers), and then somebody else who prior to my doing the work and spending the money NEVER FUCKING EVEN HEARD of Black Rocket, much less Finland, decides to try and grab the idea.

I completely agree with you on that point. BUT... the question becomes one of when you last imported the tires and/or acted as an agent for them. If you had an agent in finland for JVAB SB Suspenders but they let their website lapse and hadn't moved a single set for five years and some poika called you up looking for some would you turn around and say... "better talk to Mikko about that."

On the other hand, if you feel the economy makes importing the tires too risky is it really wrong for someone else who is willing to take that risk to do so?

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
Logic
The studs we use over here are 5-7 mm long and made of tungsten and will get to the ice beneath the snow , yes you will not get much grip if you are first on the road but they are better than the tractionized tires i see used in canada .

Nobody will disagree with that. If you have access to, and can use, that style of stud you will have good grip that is close to, or better, than gravel tires on gravel. I think everybody accepts that.
Unfortunately, over here, you can't use that type of stud so the relevant conversation is about street studs or 'long' street studs (Western Canada Rally Championship allows 3.5mm exposed) in less than half the number being used 'over there.'

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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john vanlandingham
Don't you think it sorta sucks that Skye and I , particularly ME spends the time to contact them, negotiate the fact to even sell to USA, bring in several hundred tires (in conjunction with friends in Maine for ice racers),
and then somebody else who prior to my doing the work and spending the money NEVER FUCKING EVEN HEARD of Black Rocket, much less Finland, decides to try and grab the idea..

I do not think it sucks at all. You spent the time, you brought in 'several hundred tires' (though I thought you guys brought one test set of gravel tires for Derek's car), then did nothing with it. Sorry, it's been at least 8 years since you brought any Black Rocket tires overseas, I'd be willing to bet that they don't give two shits about you anymore.
However, this is a completely moot point as the price point in order to make a decent margin would put the tires in a comparable market as D-Mack tires and at a marketing competitive disadvantage.

Funny that it's shorts and t-shirt weather here and we're talking about snow + studs.

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Grant Hughes

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NoCoast

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john vanlandingham
Don't you think it sorta sucks that Skye and I , particularly ME spends the time to contact them, negotiate the fact to even sell to USA, bring in several hundred tires (in conjunction with friends in Maine for ice racers),
and then somebody else who prior to my doing the work and spending the money NEVER FUCKING EVEN HEARD of Black Rocket, much less Finland, decides to try and grab the idea..

I do not think it sucks at all. You spent the time, you brought in 'several hundred tires' (though I thought you guys brought one test set of gravel tires for Derek's car), then did nothing with it. Sorry, it's been at least 8 years since you brought any Black Rocket tires overseas, I'd be willing to bet that they don't give two shits about you anymore.
However, this is a completely moot point as the price point in order to make a decent margin would put the tires in a comparable market as D-Mack tires and at a marketing competitive disadvantage.

Funny that it's shorts and t-shirt weather here and we're talking about snow + studs.

Well of course you don't give a shit. You didn't spend the time and effort.

The point everybody missed is: simple fucking courtesy.
You knew all this shit and you were only thinking of yourself.

It's too hard to push 10 keys and call and say hi, and kinda float the idea..
Maybe I'm just getting tired of self serving people ripping off ideas I put effort into.
maybe.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Well of course you don't give a shit. You didn't spend the time and effort.

The point everybody missed is: simple fucking courtesy.
You knew all this shit and you were only thinking of yourself.

It's too hard to push 10 keys and call and say hi, and kinda float the idea..
Maybe I'm just getting tired of self serving people ripping off ideas I put effort into.
maybe.

Sorry John. You said it yourself. With the minimal margins on rally tires it really wouldn't make any sense to lose more revenue to pay for your 'services'. And simple fucking courtesy? Are you kidding me? It's not like I was sneaking around and thought to myself, oh I'll go around John and contact this company and just bypass him altogether. I more thought, hey these are those tires JVL and others had tried to start importing way back when. I should contact them and figure out if it would be worthwhile to import a container. This was the same time as multiple threads about lack of availability for 14" tires.

I spent time and effort. Possibly more time than you did but I was looking more big picture for any rally products we could potentially import. I did find some damper products but they are not as good or as affordable as your stuff. I also happened upon the Black Rocket website and talked with them.
Typical American way of thinking. You did something a decade ago and want paid for that effort? Glad I didn't import a container. Wouldn't want you to sue me.

As a side note, I was an importer for Demon Tweeks for some time. Gave it over to Mitch Williams for Checkpoint Racing. I was paying a percentage, I think it was 5% to some guy in AZ that had made a deal with Demon Tweeks to be their rep over here. He literally did not do shit for me, yet he took 5% cutting into the minimal margins. I think Mitch very quickly convinced Demon Tweeks that the middle man deal was not beneficial to them.

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Grant Hughes

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NoCoast


And simple fucking courtesy? Are you kidding me?
I spent time and effort. Possibly more time than you

.

Yeah, coutesy. And no I'm not kidding you.
Derek was looking at a bigger picture when he offered to help with the web contact deal, Skye was looking at a bigger picture when he offered to kick in capital since, like you he had piles of excess cash just laying around and knew at the THEN exchange rate "we' could bring in tires, make a few bucks per tire and have a potentially hot product at a huge price advantage over "the usual suspects".

They just called, like normal people do, and asked, "What can I do to help?"

As to "Possibly more time..." doubt it since I brought in a couple of air freight shipments here and helped friends bring in (Ie told them how to do LTC, how to do customs, commodity line so they don't get screwed on Customs etc etc..what to do about container ships off-loading in Canada and keeping there the portion intended for that market and shipping the rest here..., bank transfers, lines of credit...) and then help with who knows how many tires--175 or so in the first order, more in the next, can't recall--I was busy moving back here.

Of course its moot since the exchange rate was driven down to give Boeing and Agri-business a exchange rate better for export.

See if you didn't have this silly idea about telephones, you could have said "I'm wondering if there might be a market for Black Rockets, what do you think?" and it would have been an entirely different situation.

You have $10,000-$15,000 to tie up in inventory?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
"I'm wondering if there might be a market for Black Rockets, what do you think?" and it would have been an entirely different situation.

You have $10,000-$15,000 to tie up in inventory?

There was a market for lower cost rally tires at the time. Coincidentally I happened upon their website, sent them an email, got a response, did a little research (ie. math), talked with them a little more, decided to not move forward. Sorry if you feel slighted. Wasn't intentional.

I have no savings, credit cards, or credit. I have maybe $400 expendable until I get my measly student pay four weeks from tomorrow. At least I'm getting paid to work on my degrees...

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Grant Hughes