Remember the "Sponsorship opportunity" guys?

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john vanlandingham
And they drive every stage at barely at the speed any normal person could drive a pick-up with bald tires..
It's both funny and pitiful the degree of delusion some have.

Some?
In my experience easily 80% of first time rally entrants are convinced they are going to take the world my storm and give the established team a run for their money.

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john vanlandingham
Again tho, if you don't know who they are what value is your complaining?

Every bit as much value as yours I'd say.

While I doubt their sponsorship plan brought money that wouldn't have come anyway, the real lesson from the event was that you simply can't promise exposure you don't deliver yourself. The Super Stupid Stages were cancelled on Friday, killing half of the exposure that was 'sold' by the team - announcers at the super special.

ROI doesn't require results. Results help, that's for sure, but good and measurable exposure often happens away from the event.

On another note: I don't know why you think I'm always baiting you John. It isn't always about you. (It rarely is, unless it is pinted right at you)

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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john vanlandingham

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Dante
They also were penalized before the first stage. Speeding

Maybe somebody forgot to 'splain to 'em that they're 'spossed to go slow on the public rods and fast on the stages.
Averaging 39 won't even get you a ticket in a 35mph zone...

Maybe it was all a BIG misunderstanding...

Not really defending the press releases... but those roads are freaking brutal, ss1 and ss3. Watch a video of it.... half the stage is a car breaker, the other is a series of super tight 2's and 3's continuously for like 4 miles.

I didnt really have a good rally speed wise, but our strategy going into those stages was just dont break the car.

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czwalga

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john vanlandingham

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Dante
They also were penalized before the first stage. Speeding

Maybe somebody forgot to 'splain to 'em that they're 'spossed to go slow on the public rods and fast on the stages.
Averaging 39 won't even get you a ticket in a 35mph zone...

Maybe it was all a BIG misunderstanding...

Not really defending the press releases... but those roads are freaking brutal, ss1 and ss3. Watch a video of it.... half the stage is a car breaker, the other is a series of super tight 2's and 3's continuously for like 4 miles.

I didnt really have a good rally speed wise, but our strategy going into those stages was just dont break the car.

Ya know the medical profession has the motto "First do no harm"

I have a motto "First, do no stupid"

Sounds like you had a good plan..

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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john vanlandingham
Sounds like you had a good plan..

albeit a slower than 'a pickup with bald tires' plan. :-)

So I went and looked at the press release from the 'other' team and noticed what was left out of the reference here.
"“We need to give Chris Duplessis, Dillon Van Wan, Ed McNelly and Verena Mei some 2WD competition,” laughed Concha."

A fairly important qualifier in the quote.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Keith, I'm curious if you've ever gone to a company (either as a competitor, organizer, or as your position with CARS) and been snubbed because of previous interactions that company has had with the racing community?

I have, because of people like this. Because of people (like the email I recently received) asking about how to get into rally and when you should expect to get paid (which yes, surprisingly enough, I do take my duties as RallyWest President RELATIVELY seriously when the time calls for it) and responded in my best nurturing a rally enthusiast manner possible. But it is people like that that can kill the opportunity for the real deals to get with some companies.

I'm just sayin', the teams "immaturity" was shown through their sponsorship scheme and the way they handled things. As adults without enough common sense to realize it, heckle away IMO. If they can't handle it, then they aren't cut out for the big time anyways. If they were gods gift to man, they'd back it up like the Sprongl's have in an even more ridiculously underpowered (and Korean piece of junk) car.

They entered a rally.
They finished a rally.

Already way ahead of a lot of people..some on this forum ..

They have 2 decent sized threads on this website alone. Seems even slow beginners can become the center of attention.

Some people are quiet by nature, some are not. Sponsorship dollars and pretty girls tend to have to be sought out. They rarely come looking for you (whomever).

My first national I was next to last finisher, 5 or 6 years later I was the 9th seeded national driver in the US.

Rally needs to be learned, speed needs to be learned, stamina and concentration needs to be learned. They're on the correct path.

Carrry on.....

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heymagic
They entered a rally.
They finished a rally.

Already way ahead of a lot of people..some on this forum ..

They have 2 decent sized threads on this website alone. Seems even slow beginners can become the center of attention.

Some people are quiet by nature, some are not. Sponsorship dollars and pretty girls tend to have to be sought out. They rarely come looking for you (whomever).

My first national I was next to last finisher, 5 or 6 years later I was the 9th seeded national driver in the US.

Rally needs to be learned, speed needs to be learned, stamina and concentration needs to be learned. They're on the correct path.

Carrry on.....

Did you try and scam "sponsorship" telling people a pile of lies?

That's the difference, maybe.

Realism and humility needs to be learned and thats what the message is we are collectively saying--with our just a little caustic poking..

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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HiTempguy
Keith, I'm curious if you've ever gone to a company (either as a competitor, organizer, or as your position with CARS) and been snubbed because of previous interactions that company has had with the racing community?

Actually, no. That's probably more because of how I approach the companies from the start more than anything else. Nothing is worse than the 'give me money and I'll put a sticker on my car' approach, but at least it stands out as poor marketing.

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HiTempguy
But it is people like that that can kill the opportunity for the real deals to get with some companies.

I'll agree that they make it harder, but not impossible. The reality is you can't control what individuals will do and there will be people out there who try and oversell their position no matter what you tell them.
About a decade ago we had a Factory supported car that came out and did a handfull of events, fell short of a couple of easy championships, but was featured in every car show in Canada. It got some TV coverage on the CRC show but didn't have much to show in the way of results.
In the end, the rally community went on about how bad the ROI was for the car company without knowing what the deal was with the manufacturer. Apparently, the car shows were the primary exposure and the company was happy.

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HiTempguy
I'm just sayin', the teams "immaturity" was shown through their sponsorship scheme and the way they handled things. As adults without enough common sense to realize it, heckle away IMO. If they can't handle it, then they aren't cut out for the big time anyways. If they were gods gift to man, they'd back it up like the Sprongl's have in an even more ridiculously underpowered (and Korean piece of junk) car.

But the quote from the press release, including the attribution, shows they were poking fun at themselves and didn't have massive expectations for their own performance. That they decided to try and offer some exposure in trade for sponsorship isn't really a bad thing. Low return deals like this make the teams that DO put the effort in stand out that much more.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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Morison

But the quote from the press release, including the attribution, shows they were poking fun at themselves and didn't have massive expectations for their own performance. That they decided to try and offer some exposure in trade for sponsorship isn't really a bad thing. Low return deals like this make the teams that DO put the effort in stand out that much more.

Yes, the singular press release with ONE small line of text poking fun at themselves. Compared to the big ad(s) promoting themselves as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Hmm...

As for your other points, whether you are trying to infer anything on my part in the acquisition of sponsorship or not, in all honesty, I find it hard to believe you have NEVER ran into a company who was previously soured on past sponsorship. I always assumed with your roll at CARS that it would be an active process to find partners, but maybe a form of cold calling isn't the way to go about it at that level. Who knows.

My point is that these people make the average rallyist look like a schmuk, and when said average rallyist tries to get into a sponsorship position, makes it that much harder. Does it really have an effect in the end? I'd think most companies that you are going to get sponsored by are willing to hear a pitch, and a company that writes off someone with a plan and being well spoken as just another one of the punks you probably don't want as a sponsor anyways. Still, every little bit helps.

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john vanlandingham

Did you try and scam "sponsorship" telling people a pile of lies?

That's the difference, maybe.

Realism and humility needs to be learned and thats what the message is we are collectively saying--with our just a little caustic poking..

"A negative judgment gives you more satisfaction than praise, provided it smacks of jealousy."
Jean Baudrillard

---

Intercom and electronics dude. www.zerodegreec.ca



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2012 11:57PM by zerodegreec.

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HiTempguy
...in all honesty, I find it hard to believe you have NEVER ran into a company who was previously soured on past sponsorship. I always assumed with your roll at CARS that it would be an active process to find partners, but maybe a form of cold calling isn't the way to go about it at that level. Who knows.

Cold calling is pointless. Deals don't happen without some level of personal connection and involvement. I'm over a year working on a deal that started with a personal introduction and has been favorable from day 1, no idea when it will close.

I've done introductory presentations to companies that 'should' be interested (both rally and other promo opportunities) but once they get handed to the corporate ad agency, the deals die a quick death. (If the idea doesn't come from within the agency, they aren't interested)

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HiTempguy
My point is that these people make the average rallyist look like a schmuk, and when said average rallyist tries to get into a sponsorship position, makes it that much harder.

Except that these guys are blatant schmucks. What they promise is clearly exaggerated low hanging fruit and of little to no value. To a company that would actually get involved, they are annoying but dismissed quickly.

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HiTempguy
I'd think most companies that you are going to get sponsored by are willing to hear a pitch, and a company that writes off someone with a plan and being well spoken as just another one of the punks you probably don't want as a sponsor anyways. Still, every little bit helps.

The company that you are going to get sponsored by will listen to a pitch because you are a buddy or a buddy of a valued employee. For the most part, that's how it works right to the top of the food chain in North American Rally.

The fastest driver in North America is sponsored by a range of window and home reno suppliers and a chain of fitness gyms. Ever wonder how that came together?

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Promotion is always skating around lies and mis-truths. Sometimes intentional, sometimes wishful thinking. If great results were the bar for sponsorship then about 30 Sprint Cup cars would be running with a number only.

Remember the black kid from a few years back trying to drum up money for a rally car? He kinda disappeared as we suspected he would and I doubt it made anyones rally career more difficult. People in rally might need to learn the fine art of promotion just a bit...if they want to. I had my entries paid by a tavern, my tires discounted significantly by a tire store, money from a local parts chain, tech help and parts price break from Nissan and even co-op money from Hamms national office. The IRS allowed the rest of the expenses as a legit business deduction. No one just offered any of that, I had to ask, beg, plead, beat on doors.

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czwalga

Not really defending the press releases... but those roads are freaking brutal, ss1 and ss3. Watch a video of it.... half the stage is a car breaker, the other is a series of super tight 2's and 3's continuously for like 4 miles.

I didnt really have a good rally speed wise, but our strategy going into those stages was just dont break the car.

with the road improvements they have been doing the waste management stages were pretty good this year and fun.

---

-KTurner
Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel.

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heymagic
Promotion is always skating around lies and mis-truths. Sometimes intentional, sometimes wishful thinking. If great results were the bar for sponsorship then about 30 Sprint Cup cars would be running with a number only.

Remember the black kid from a few years back trying to drum up money for a rally car? He kinda disappeared as we suspected he would and I doubt it made anyones rally career more difficult. People in rally might need to learn the fine art of promotion just a bit...if they want to. I had my entries paid by a tavern, my tires discounted significantly by a tire store, money from a local parts chain, tech help and parts price break from Nissan and even co-op money from Hamms national office. The IRS allowed the rest of the expenses as a legit business deduction. No one just offered any of that, I had to ask, beg, plead, beat on doors.

But you did good. People did look and see you. I OFTEN pointed to you to beginners and said that "That's what you can do in a simple car"

The question is---in this context--did you go out before you had entyered on event and throw around a lot of utter crap about what they'll get if the give you money to play?

I know you enough to think you didn't... and if there's anything useful to this discussion it might be to discuss and unravel how you did those deals, what was the trail of connections that allowed the thing to work..

You were local and I think that is the part that these "Pro" guys forgot and many don't think of.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I guess an important question might be, did these guys actually get some sponsorship money? If so they are laughing at me for blowing my own dough.